Another Open Letter

[EchoMan]

...

• It's not your place to decide upon how Soviet Russia works, in the end we have democracy in here.

We will discuss only, if you follow the above guides. Saying a few warm words about Stalin wouldn't hurt though."

I wasn't paying attention to this at all after the first line, but just to make something perfectly clear (again, I have posted this before):

Cantr II is not a democracy. You do not have a right to the game. It is not governed by the players directly, or even by vote. The game is offered to people who can adhere to the rules, and governed by people that Jos seems fit to do it. Cantr, unlike many games, do have a constitution and a clear chain of command, in which people can join and have their say. Comparing it to the Soviet Union however, isn't fair, and I find it somewhat insulting.

[Alutka]

...

• It's not your place to decide upon how Soviet Russia works, in the end we have democracy in here.

We will discuss only, if you follow the above guides. Saying a few warm words about Stalin wouldn't hurt though."

I wasn't paying attention to this at all after the first line, but just to make something perfectly clear (again, I have posted this before):

Cantr II is not a demokracy.

Nor was Soviet Russia. But they at least pretended that the country was for the people, not the people for the country.

It's a community game. If want to keep it alive you should make it a friendly place for the players. Saying 'It's not your game,if you don't like it and have issues then leave' isn't really encouraging.

[EchoMan]

It's a community game. If want to keep it alive you should make it a friendly place for the players. Saying 'It's not your game,if you don't like it and have issues then leave' isn't really encouraging.

This is perhaps goind slightly off topic, but anyway...

Cantr II is not per se a community game. The game would run perfectly without forums or IRC and all players would be anonymous. A majority of the players don't visit the forums at all.

We do try to make it a friendly place, but that is not always so easy. I could have spent the couple of hours I have been here defending against assumptions, insults and accusations on the forum, on something much more creative. The friendly stance cannot be a one way street, it has to be an effort from everyone.

As for your quote 'It's not your game,if you don't like it and have issues then leave' you are welcome to find an actual quote where I say that, or refrain from using it as a quote. I encourage people to have opinions, when they are not making false assumptions or empty accusations.

In the end though, it is Jos game. He is very convinced about the "spirit of the CR" approach, and the secrecy and anonymousity of the cases the PD handles. It's the foundation of the fairness of the game, and it's not likely to change.

Edit: I wrote ICQ instead of IRC. Does ICQ even exist any more? Feeling old at the moment...

[Alutka]

I am not making any asumptions Echo. Let make myself clear: what bugs me is that we (the players) are not informed about anything. There is a problem which needs to be solved, and well... as you wrote in the other thread:

You have no idea what staff does and does not. You have no idea how/when/if this has been handled, or why.

From my point of view it looks as if you were telling us to (sorry for that) fuck off and mind our own business. But the game is our business, our, the players and the admins euqally. I am just asking for information like:
"Alright, we are going to look into this, we will get back to you in a month/four months/a year whatever" or "We are not going to look into this at all, because...". Am I asking for too much?

And the other thing that bugs me, is that players are not treated equally. Some players have 'higher expectations' while the others... well, can go raping people even though someone asks them to FTB. It bugs me. I really wouldn't like to run into such creep IG, but well... we are not allowed to even discuss that.


Ps. I am sorry for the quote that made you angry. I didn't put it as a [ qoute] because it wasn't a quote. I didn't make myself clear. I just meant that your words and behaviour makes me feel as if I could or subordinate completely and play the game, or quit. As if I was not allowed to discuss things. All that because again, I have no idea if the stuff works/is going to work on the problem, or not. I know you promised at some point to work on that, but it's a month or so since then, and we heard nothing from you.

[Alladinsane]

I'm proud to be a member who should be "ashamed" of myself.

Earlier I put out a call and so did the people in Gab and our head of department.
We asked those who were speaking up to join and help us.
Simple request.
Alas but the 'dogs of war' were the last to step up.
Finally a few have done so and though the training will take a while, I sincerely thank them.


In fairness, I think a few good points were made in this thread. Iavatus made many, Marian a few, Alutka a few.
In actuality, quite a few people made good points and that seems to be the way of todays world.
Everyone wants to make a point...and then a counterpoint...and then a third point.
You see how the cycle continues.

A few people stepped up and decided to join staff as trainee's and aspirants.

They have decided to make more than a point.

======================

They decided to make a difference.

======================


I hope more of us can grasp that distinction.


I want to again personally thank those people who are willing to give up their personal time and effort to make more than a point.
To the rest; we do hear you and apologize that instant gratification is not, probably will not, and has never been the way things get done here.
We're trying and talking.

[EchoMan]

...
I am just asking for information like:
"Alright, we are going to look into this, we will get back to you in a month/four months/a year whatever" or "We are not going to look into this at all, because...". Am I asking for too much?

You should always get a receipt that your report has been received. If that isn't the case, something is broken, and we need to fix it. As I wrote elsewhere, you won't get any detailed information about the findings and/or actions from the PD. The PD won't give any feedback at all in most cases, for several reasons that has also been discussed.

And the other thing that bugs me, is that players are not treated equally. Some players have 'higher expectations' while the others... well, can go raping people even though someone asks them to FTB. It bugs me. I really wouldn't like to run into such creep IG, but well... we are not allowed to even discuss that.

This, if true, is of course not acceptable. If someone breaks the NCS rule, report them. Everything that is reported is added into "case files" and is completely transparent within the PD and all senior staff. Anyone of those can review a case.

Ps. I am sorry for the quote that made you angry. I didn't put it as a [ qoute] because it wasn't a quote. I didn't make myself clear. I just meant that your words and behaviour makes me feel as if I could or subordinate completely and play the game, or quit. As if I was not allowed to discuss things. All that because again, I have no idea if the stuff works/is going to work on the problem, or not. I know you promised at some point to work on that, but it's a month or so since then, and we heard nothing from you.

No worries.

I'm not certain exactly what you are referring to that I said we're working on. But if I say that, it means I have started a topic in the sub-forum of the concerned department or GAB where we're discussing the issue. We don't hide or remove anything, however things may end up below other topics that needs to be addressed and it can take some time before we can come to a desicion. When we do it's not always it will be announced, it may be something that isn't adding to the resolution to be out in the open. Or it could result in an in-game message. It all depends on the situation. At the moment there are 251 topics in the GAB forum. Most of them are resolved, but yeah, we have our fair share of things to talk about.