Best map ever

[Antichrist_Online]

Its probably better to measure displacment as a space/time vector, including the time and the percentage completion would work. The equations of uniformly acceleration would work if you knew initial speed and time taken with acceleration being 0. Then S= UT
Displacement = initial velocity X time taken.

EDIT: Forgot to add, treat: roads as straight light rods: towns, people and objects as particles and the sea as a lamina. I'm trying to model cantr using my mechanics work as a practice exercise. (also might add this to one character's note on cantr. He's the first Psyntyst[old/currupted spelling of scientist])

[The Industriallist]

Its probably better to measure displacment as a space/time vector, including the time and the percentage completion would work. The equations of uniformly acceleration would work if you knew initial speed and time taken with acceleration being 0. Then S= UT
Displacement = initial velocity X time taken.

I could be mistaken, but it sounds like you just wrapped a bit of terminology around the definition of velocity...

Vectors are only a useful concept for sea navigation, anyway. Land velocities are 1-dimensional.

We've all been working from that definition (or actually from the discrete time version, since cantr is non-continuous). But the problem is that any physical measure needs units, and while cantr provides time, weight, and even health units, there's no trace of built-in distance units.

I can't decipher the purpose of your EDIT...

[myst]

The map making department must find this thread very amusing

Whats wrong with the distance unit being "How far you can walk in an hour unburdened"? As far as I understood it, thats constant if you are carrying less than 5000g... I've certainly seen that around a lot.

(Can you get anywhere with maps by sticking together the little map graphics? I'd imagine the distances on that could be accurate. Then you could use pixels...)

[The Industriallist]

The map making department must find this thread very amusing

Why?

Whats wrong with the distance unit being "How far you can walk in an hour unburdened"? As far as I understood it, thats constant if you are carrying less than 5000g... I've certainly seen that around a lot.

I don't know that. And if I did, it would be from OOC sources, not from IC research. Not good.

As for the proposed unit...It could be a good one. quite likely is, considering how you can get a rough measure of a road in an hour using it. But you can do the same for any unit you invent, they would only differ by a conversion factor.

(Can you get anywhere with maps by sticking together the little map graphics? I'd imagine the distances on that could be accurate. Then you could use pixels...)

You most certainly can, and it's been done. But pixels are not a unit of walking distance, as has been said many times here. Distances on the map and walking times do not correlate.

Now for a sea map...but there are other good options there too.

[Antichrist_Online]

I was trying to say, very badly, that we could use the % as a arbitary distance on one given road, then calculate the travelling speed for that.
apply this speed relivitive to the other roads on the map. Or that units of time might be able to be converted into units of space for this situation then use these to draw the map, the lengths being the size of this time.
The edit was just to clarify how I model cantr incase it was of any use to anyone working the speed out.
I used Kinematics incase the speed varied, in which case you'd need both speeds or the acceleration to work the other one out using s=ut+0.5att and VV=uu+2at to work the other values out, which can be changed into the velocities.

Sorry if that still seems overy extensive, but I'm trying to make a model of cantr to work out the cantrian laws of physics for one of my characters to discover.

[boomhaeur]

"(Can you get anywhere with maps by sticking together the little map graphics? I'd imagine the distances on that could be accurate. Then you could use pixels...)"

That's the method I've used for each of my maps. Additionally I check the location frequently and paste it into Photoshop and line up the tiles. I also track movement on a seperate layer (basiaclly just connect the dots between the last orange dot and the next one on the tiles) so you get a fairly good representation of the path...

[Solfius]

the problem I find with sticking images together is my perfectinist self doesn't like the idea of losing scale when out of sight of reference points

[Revanael]

Vectors are only a useful concept for sea navigation, anyway. Land velocities are 1-dimensional.

No, no, no... very wrong. For a start, VELOCITY is definied as a vector quantity, even if that is in the x-direction (and therefore treated as 1-d)

Speed, on the other hadn, is a pure scalar.

[boomhaeur]

Solfius - on land I was fairly lucky because there tended to be some kind of imperfection/change in land that I could use as a guidepoint. There were some points on the new island where I had no reference points - but typically that was only on one of multiple paths that left the town I was headed for. In those cases I could line up by way of the long route to get my continuity.

As for water, get your bearings with regard to how fast your boat can move by sailing in a straight line @ 0,90,180 or 270 and figure out how many pixels per turn your boat moves in a straight line. If you know the angle, the speed you travel at and the number of turns you've been moving that direction you can actually figure out how far you've moved down that angle. It's kind of like a pythagorem theory in reverse.

I tested it out in sight of land and it seemed to be pretty effective.

[Agar]

You guys who've read the FAQ might already know this, but roads are linear. They go straight from point a to point b. For example, going back and forth between Flounder and Lake Village lets you walk over Lake Quillanoi. I did it and was joined by some 10 cows, some mountain goats, and a few other critters.

So.

That find your angle and your speed thing you do on water works on land to, except you don't get to pick your angle. This means the numbers won't be convienent, like 270 or 90, but you could use them to get a close estimate.

Then you'll know the distance, and can start experimenting with wieght, health, and/or acceleration, if any of that is a factor.

Do we know if boats are affected by weight? You could take an empty boat and travel for a few days in a direction from one land mark to another, then fill it to bursting and do it again. If it is, you've got another thing to figure out.

[The Industriallist]

>Rev
A 1-d vector and a scalar are not distiunguishable. So there is no point wasting the effort of viewing it as a vector, unless you feel like it. I did say that they were 1-dimensional...

>Agar
It has been said that visible distance on the map is not proportional to the actual walking time. So there is no ability to use pixels as distance markers. You can use them as proportional distance markers along a single path, but they don't match between different paths.

I am fairly sure boat speed is affected by weight, but that's purely OOC and not sufficiently researched.

[Revanael]

Either way, Industrialist, any map navigation is 2-d. And therefore vectors do matter.

[The Industriallist]

Cantr land geography is non-euclidean. It looks euclidean, but you're actually navigating a weighted graph where each vertex happens to be drawn at some point on the map.

So the actual space I can't describe for dimension (how many dimensions in an abstract weighted digraph?), but when traveling you're moving in the 1-d space of a road.

[Agar]

I'm just going to past pictures together. I can do that and do it pretty well.

You guys can figure out if that road takes 4 days and 10 minutes or 4 days and 45 minutes. I don't even want to guess that.

Al least, not in this edition.

[ephiroll]

It has been said that visible distance on the map is not proportional to the actual walking time. So there is no ability to use pixels as distance markers. You can use them as proportional distance markers along a single path, but they don't match between different paths.

I am fairly sure boat speed is affected by weight, but that's purely OOC and not sufficiently researched.

The reason that path length and visible distance on the maps don't match is because the paths used to be "winding", but for some reason that was changed a long time ago, so now the chars always travel a striaght line between areas (this is why there are several places in the game where the path seems to go over water), but the path distances weren't changed to reflect this. Presently, it is impossible to build a map in scale to any standardized walking distance/time, I've tried and failed because any map you produce in this way will be distorted very badly.

Boat speed is indeed affected by weight, and it's well known by many IC.