Population Expansion

[Nick]

Couldnt think of a good title for this thread, but I think that one of the main differences between Cantr and real politics is that there are very few localities that border each other, and even fewer that contest the boundaries. I think as the population expands for each of the regions, the differnet localities will have a few choices. Either to get along, ignore each other, fight over it, or my favorite, and hardest to accomplish... become a Nation. There has never been a true "nation" in my opinion. I think that if there will be one in the near future, it will be the "democratic strip". They are already coming to agreements on currency, and I would be interested to see if maybe they form a single country, and each locality would be a state/town/province/territory whatever you want to call it. What I am getting at is that no government in my opinion has ever created a multi-layered government. It would be interesting if there was a democratic country in which people vote their mayors in places like Siom, Quillanoi, and Tircqi (local government), governers/premiers for places like the Quillanoi region etc. (municipal/state/provincial government), and then perhaps a capital where they discuss issues that affect the entire nation (federal government). A two layered government including municipal and federal would suffice, however.

[new.vogue.nightmare]

If the grid system, instead of single locations, were implemented, there would probably be more territorial disputes, as you could have multiple city-states popping up in an area, rather than no more than one government per location..

[Nick]

Well, until the population of Cantr is about twice what it is now, I dont support the implementation of something like that. While true it would be more realistic, there isnt enough characters, in my opinion, to support such an already large world, divided into even more pieces than it is now.

[Meh]

There is the followers vs. revolutionary issue that spring up. If children are implmented people with children will have more to loose and be less mobile.

The evolution of a larger state would be speed by an orgnaized outside force doing harm. A large army, organized bandits.

Food scarity {seasonality and rotting} would also lend itself to larger states. As it would become more intesive to have people in locations without food. More interdepence would develop. Currently one person can bring in enough food to feed 15 people for ten days.

[rklenseth]

Well, until the population of Cantr is about twice what it is now, I dont support the implementation of something like that. While true it would be more realistic, there isnt enough characters, in my opinion, to support such an already large world, divided into even more pieces than it is now.

The already large world is about to get a little larger. Actually I should say a lot larger.

Anyways, you don't consider the Alexian Empire a nation? It does control two spawning locations (Ladvicitavoi and Naron) and many more locations including one non-spawning but major location (Sjofitch). In my view, I consider that a nation.

[Solfius]

hmm, Can Cantr get too big? Nick is right about a grid system opening up all the land. If we add more and more land it will make the population of Cantr spread more thinly. Perhaps a better approach is to add more locations to existing islands?

[rklenseth]

Well, I wasn't talking about the implementation of the grid system though I would like to see that and I don't see where the problem is that you are talking about but that new lands are being introduced and they are pretty big.

But whether or not they will have spawning locations, we will have to wait and see won't we even though I already have a good idea of what is and isn't.

[Solfius]

what i was talking about was that if a grid system is introduced there will be masses and masses of new land. That would spread the total population of Cantr out an awful lot, and under a grid system it would probaly be best to have less actual land, as there will be more playable locations than there currently is in the same amount of space.

So, is it a good idea to keep adding more and more land?

When adding new locations I think it would be better to add more locatiosn to existing islands, rather than make new ones, that way we get closer to a grid system anyway, by packing the land in more, so it kinda slowly introduces the grid system to us, and when it is finally introduced we don't end up with a massively large space of land, with a tiny amount of people to fill it. which could happen by adding in more new islands and paticularly more spawn places

[Meh]

I would say that large sparsely populated expanses are the best way to create large goverments. The thought being that the force that large groups unify against needs somewhere to bild out of sight. There are very few places with enough isolation but enough people nearby to build from.

The huns created the basis for large states from Europe to Asia due to the common fear of them.

And they will in Cantr too.

You think build a guard is hard try doing it without being detected. It takes for friggin ever. In fact I suspect that there are multiple groups in isolated corners doing the same thing. I wish one of us the best of luck to unleashing the horde.

[Solfius]

ah yes, and the grid system would allow for that easily I would imagine, but with our current player base, how much open expanse can we fill?

[rklenseth]

Well, first of all I think population and how dense or sparse it is is up to the societies that exist or will exist.

All the lands that are being created are already existing lands. They were just never used. You remember when ships were getting stuck out in the middle of the sea? That was because they were hitting an existing land that hadn't had locations put on it yet. That is what is currently being done as well as resources being placed ont hese islands and animals.

I don't think new locations will added to the already 'populated' islands as would be a better term used for them. They will stay the way they are for now. And I don't think we have to worry about the grid system anytime soon. That is something planned for Cantr II 2.0 and from my knowledge that is currently on the back burner until Jos can get some programmers to help him out only on 2.0. Thomas and the current programmers are to busy working on this version.

But as I said, I don't think we should worry about population. That is something for the in game societies to worry about.

[Solfius]

but in societies they have an infinite number of people, where we are limited to our number of players * 15, at most, usually less I believe.

That can have a profound effect upon population when the size is restrained like that

[rklenseth]

The real world has an infinite number of people then we have a infinite number of players. Plus, right now the world is small contained mostly to a few islands. Sort of like Europe, Asia, and Africa (but smaller) before they discovered the Americas (which would be bigger in this case and minus the Natives already there).

As I said, the lands already exist. We are just now adding locations to them and populating them with animals and resources. Just because we are doing this doesn't mean we are going to add spawning locations on them.

Since the lands already exist why not do something with them other than to add obstacles for ships? Plus, some new lands may have resources that the older lands do not have and many more surprises. You never know until you take a ship out and sail the sea and discover one of these new lands though any land other than ones you haven't visited yet would be new.

But again, I still think it is up to societies to determine population and whether or not it is dense or sparse. Plus, once reproducation is added a lot is going to change as far as populations anyways.

[Solfius]

well, we'll see. I see what you mean about making existing land usable, and I dont think that's a problem, I was just thinking that if the land was too big, and people became to spread out, then we could end up where people were so many locations apart they would never find each other

[rklenseth]

And like I said I think that would be more of a societal problem. Characters would have to things to get around that. Make better communications, stay in one area to stay densely populated, etc... there could thousands of solutions. But I'm not to worried about the grid system currently as that would be a Cantr II 2.0 thing.