Can't take it anymore; thus reacheth thy denouement

General out-of-character discussion among players of Cantr II.

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Shaudawn
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Can't take it anymore; thus reacheth thy denouement

Postby Shaudawn » Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:07 pm

Then I saw a Beast coming out of the sea.
It had ten horns and seven heads.
On each of the horns, there was a crown.
On on each of the heads, names of blasphemy.

...and the entire world was shocked in the wake of the Beast
...fell helpless to their knees and said, "Who is like the Beast?
 And who could possibly stand up against it?"

—John of Patmos, c.100 C.E.



I can't take it anymore. There was a time when I played this game because I needed an escape or distraction. Sometimes I used it to learn how to do the things of leadership and cooperation and responsibility. Sometimes I used it to learn how to be more creative. Restrictions on notes was a major impetus for me learning CSS, and now I'm to the point that I can do so much more with the web pages I create. For those things, I am grateful.

But so many creative and fun people have left. There are plenty who are still great. They make and play great characters. But with the world falling in to deeper and deeper violence and tribalism, and finding myself between a resurgence of real life fascist right-wingers and Leftist nut jobs, and then to see all of that here like a Black Mirror...it's no fun anymore. In years past, I've been able to endure because somewhere in this fictional world there were still good people and good distractions to keep things fun, interesting and challenging, creative, and enjoyable. But now every single one of my characters feels like a mirror image of the real world with all of its rhetoric and violence and suspicion and division and apathy.

Some of you players are sick. You may say you are just playing a character and that this is just a game, but anyone who knows even a bit of psychology knows that the things of the subconscious are not unconnected. One problem with Cantr is that there has never been any real effort to moderate the extremely violent behaviors. Even when that "poll" came out, what was ever done? It used to be a rule that broadcasting sexually explicit stuff over the radio was against policy. I guess that becomes moot when the subject matter is extremely disturbing violent imagery and the moderators can point to the nerfed radio range and say "at least it's not widespread" and ignore the real issues.

There has been a thread that doesn't die—and maybe for a reason—called "Why Cantr Failed." It isn't failing. It isn't declining. It isn't about to fail. The game "is failed" because from its inception, it was flawed. Flawed and never fixed. So many good and creative people have left the game, and there has grown a sizable percent that role plays the sick and twisted stuff of their fantasies. There are many good players left—a majority, still. I do enjoy them, and those whose styles I recognize (though I don't bother speculating much on who plays whom) I smile at as if I'd found an oasis in a desert (you know who you are).

The game "is failed" because the only other thing it can do now is harbor those with violent fantasies to be played out. This has been a problem in the past. It remains a problem now, still unsolved because no real consorted effort has been made. And if it has, it has been against petty violations or against some forms of sexuality, particularly of the 'Fifty Shades' variety. There is a helpless shrug by the staff: "as long as there's consent". "And the entire world fell helpless to their knees and said, 'Nuthin' I kin do 'bout it. It's a beast of a thing to tame.' " The only enforcement I've ever seen has been against those who happen to have their characters, even involuntarily so, questioned by PD to wonder why they are in a particular location that may or may not violate their arbitrary enforcement of the Capital Rule. Or whether that thing you said was really "in game". Or you were judged too have made assumptions much in common with the real Earth but never, ever, ever without any real elaboration just as to what constitutes playing IC or OOC...just arbitrary vagaries. I've tried. I've tested—nay, provoked that Capital Rule at times (thanks Biin). Sometimes, I admit I should have been more careful... having one character pretend to know a little Polish when, in reality, I, the writer, don't know it and I'm probably slaughtering the language—my apologies to the Polish community for my butchering of your words and vocabulary. ...or being too emotional and letting that emotion trickle into the other characters. I can't compartmentalize like some of you can.

The game "is failed" even though it technically is still hosted and runs. Like the proverbial chicken, it continues to flail about despite a cut off head. How apt that metaphore. It "is failed" because it is stagnant. There is so much capability and potential that other sites have made, but this one creeps along because its creator has lost either interest or ability to add capability without compromising his world, and won't even consider that the worldbuilding and rules from the beginning were stupid. I feel like he's given up, and it's only to people like Greek and others who have the talent to do these things...I am immensely grateful for those, by the way. Their implementation, like animal domestication, probably kept me around longer because of it.

And the game "is failed" because it fails its own vision and definitions. It is not a social simulator when the world remains incomplete and arbitrarily enforced. If there is any society to be studied, it isn't the world inside the game, it is the people from the real world who have played the game. If you look at the society of players and not the fictional world of characters, the player society is the one that needs analysis. Its the power structure that has chosen to favor their idea of how the game should be played and not the fictional characters in fictional towns that need questioning. My heart is too broken now because good players have left or been driven off who had great ideas and were fun. They played it as a game in which some would win and some would lose and some played antagonists and some played villains and some played heroes. It was fun back then either way, and if it ever got overwhelming on one, you could find a little relief somewhere.

Not anymore. Now it feels more like a game where the players (not the characters) aim to not just win, but dominate, obliterate, and obfuscate. To those good people who play good characters and have good hearts who still play, I will miss you. I got to know some pretty great people. Some of them, just by their play, helped me in real life even though they didn't know it. There's maybe a couple of you left that I know and perhaps a dozen whom I do not but still enjoy. I'm sorry you are still playing in a world that only gives real psychos license to act out their violent fantasies on you. But back here in the real world, real people are having real problems and I have to go be there. Not here. Not anymore. The game can no longer be my escape, refuge, or inspiration. I've found better communities where people build whole amazing worlds together, not destroy everything the reach of a dead and dying one that remains a static monolith.

I guess it's the writer in me that feels like I need to bring the stories to a close. So this isn't a rage-quit as it is a denouement (though there is rage). I knew it was time when I came to realize that my brightest, most death-resistant character had to die. His existence, even fictionally, was another reason I've stayed around so long. This anchor is severed. Consider denouement as a mourning process.

Maybe it's another odd thing within me that wants to leave something behind...how does the saying go? "Live brilliantly and leave a beautiful corpse!"? Something like that. As either Goyaalé or Tȟašúŋke Witkó or Šúŋka Khúčiyel is sometimes credited as saying: "today is a good day to die." Maybe there were be some beautiful corpses, but they will be left, not taken. I could never play a bad guy. I tried a few times and I just couldn't do it. Even my roughest ones were eventually called "nice" and "helpful" and "giving". I could never play a pirate, murderer, psychopath—crazy (again, thanks Biin!), but not psychopathic. But I feel too much. I hate horror movies. I've worked with people on the margins—street ministry, hospitality—seen some very gritty things and been with people who had real problems with mental health, drugs, prostitution, violence. It horrifies me to feel more threatened in this game than I ever did in the dark of night on the city streets with a schizophrenic freaking out. Some of you players are really sick f*ks, you know that? Not characters. Players. Cantr staff, don't deny you've had to literally "clean up" some pretty ugly notes, probably due to legality if real authorities ever found out about them and really shut your servers down.

For those who do have good hearts, I wish you luck. Get out and find good avenues of expression before these sickos take over the majority of characters left. For those who get off on the sick stuff you play, get help. Don't tell yourself you are only playing a role and that it's harmless. That's the biggest lie. Don't tell yourself or others that it's just a game. Same lie.

"It is a good day to die. Follow me" out. [Low-Dog, c. 19th Cent. C.E.]
--Shaudawn

"We all know that art is not the truth, art is a lie that makes us realize the truth." --Picasso

"Another belief of mine: that everyone else my age is an adult, whereas I am merely in disguise. " --M. Atwood
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Shaudawn
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Re: Can't take it anymore; thus reacheth thy denouement

Postby Shaudawn » Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:27 pm

Biin: Well aren't you Mr. Bummer Butt today.

Me: Biin! Say, aren't you supposed to be in...

Biin: Ah, tut-tut, my good Maker. Thou doest not want upon thee the wrath of the almighty gods of Cantr, do ye?

Me: Right, right. Well, you got any beautiful corpses for us today?

Biin: *He pulls out his banjo and starts to tune it* Why, yes. Yes I do. Since you can't have all the spotlight, oh Smooshy One, I thought I'd intrude. Since you're about to go self-postal, I'd best be getting my stage time before an audience somehow.

Me: *chuckling* You never could stand to be left out now, could you. Always leaning on that fourth wall and everything. Alright. I see you have a ...erm...banjo. <mumble>oh Donii save us</mumble> ...so what do you have in mind to ...lighten the mood?

Biin: *He grins like a bushtit who just discovered that saying the word 'bushtit' makes immature boys giggle even though it's just the name of a bird.* Glad you asked! An appropriate song, soon to be followed by another until the Cantrian gods get fed up, bow to pressure, and ban my sexy ass.

Me: You mean my sexy--

Biin: THIS is a little song I wrote and performed on the radio back when I had a career, which is something you seem to lack, my dear Author. And, to be fair, I'm going to finally be able to perform it along with the liner notes you wrote about them in their original form. What was it a few years ago?

Me: I can't remember, but thanks.

Biin: *He clears his throat* Ah-hem. Well, go on, then. *He waves an accusing finger like it was a broom sweeping up after a teenager still lying in bed at noon* Liner notes!

===

6. THE LIGHTS ARE GOING OUT
(dedicated to the lives and deaths of the truly brilliant--Elyos Vycarius, Aubergine Parkinson, and so many more)

((NOTES: originally, this had no melody to it, and the main verses reflect that. However, as I wrote more, Johnny Cash's 'Hurt' entered into my brain, so that definitely got reflected in the chorus strongly. But while 'Hurt' was written about a single person, this song was more about all the people just disappearing--and not just numbers, but really talented and colorful people. I had this image of a bunch of lights being turned off for the last time. In Seattle during the late 70's/early-80's before Microsoft, Boeing was the only real manufacturer in town and there was this horrible depression here. There was a billboard on the way out of town that read, "Will the last person leaving Seattle please turn out the lights?" So, I started with that image: brilliant lights going out making the world darker, emptier. Another image: if you've ever flown over the Rocky Mountains at night--the lights of big cities dwindling, becoming further apart until you see just a single rural light here and there, and then its completely dark below and you know there's nobody down there at all. I thought about all the people going, even those antagonistic to my characters: "A sword has lost its edge..." and realizing that even those characters that were such pains to mine were just...gone. Some people would find that relief. I decided I would not.))

#simple picking of strings from a banjo in a somewhat subdued, stark, melancholy manner#


A rainbow lost a color today, happened right before my sight;
One moment it glimmered, the next it lost its light;
Can't really say what happened. Can't really tell if it's true;
Somewhere a rainbow fell to the ground, missing green and gold and Blue. ---

Say tell me if the nights are darker, don't seem to be as many stars;
And a song has lost its lyrics, I can only hum the last two bars;
A book is missing pages. And a zoo is down some birds;
Tell me why the lights are going out, or am I just being absurd?;

#chorus chords, strummed and picked banjo#
Where have you become, my dearest friends?;
Everything I've known, goes away in the end;
And green will fade to black, a whimper not a shout;
Dare not close my eyes, the lights are going out;


#instrumental, simple picking, banjo continues in its somewhat subdued, stark, reflective, appreciative, but melancholy manner#


#verse picking melody#
A sword has lost its edge. And a ring misplaced its luster;
There's an empty space in an empty place, with more emptiness to muster;
A conversation's missing words, and a day is missing hours;
I never saw the hand that took, and threw away the flowers; ---

A radio's gone silent. Never thought that'd be so bad;
And a highway leads to nowhere, where once upon a time it had;
There's less ships in the harbor, the ones there have lost their crews;
Tell me why the lights are going out, or is that just old news?;

#chorus chords, strumed and picked banjo#
Where have you all gone, my dearest friends?;
Everyone I knew, a fragile candle in the end;
But green will fade to black, a whimper once a shout;
I wanna close my eyes, when the lights are going out;

#chorus chords repeat with stronger urgency#
If we could start again, light-years far away;
Could I keep it all? Could we find a way?;
Or trade the lights for stars, a million funeral pyres,
A gravesite filled with dirt, extinguished all the fires...;

#the song ends abruptly#

===

Me: *slow clapping*

Biin: *He grins like a turkey the day after Thanksgiving* Thank you my good man. Thank you. *He takes a grand bow, accompanied by an arm flourish of truly dizzying magnitude.*
--Shaudawn

"We all know that art is not the truth, art is a lie that makes us realize the truth." --Picasso

"Another belief of mine: that everyone else my age is an adult, whereas I am merely in disguise. " --M. Atwood
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cutecuddlydirewolf
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Re: Can't take it anymore; thus reacheth thy denouement

Postby cutecuddlydirewolf » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:35 am

Shaudawn wrote:Some of you players are sick. You may say you are just playing a character and that this is just a game, but anyone who knows even a bit of psychology knows that the things of the subconscious are not unconnected. One problem with Cantr is that there has never been any real effort to moderate the extremely violent behaviors. Even when that "poll" came out, what was ever done? It used to be a rule that broadcasting sexually explicit stuff over the radio was against policy. I guess that becomes moot when the subject matter is extremely disturbing violent imagery and the moderators can point to the nerfed radio range and say "at least it's not widespread" and ignore the real issues.


What a meanspirited, ignorant thing to say. Just because you personally find villainous characters distasteful hardly means that everyone else does.

Passivity and peace is why the game has stagnated. So you can be damn sure I will continue to play violent and aggressive characters, no matter what one man with a grudge has to say.
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Rmak
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Re: Can't take it anymore; thus reacheth thy denouement

Postby Rmak » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:00 am

Pretty sick events happening, to be sure but I am more than sure the wonderous PD would be more than happy to look into this.
Quote Wolfsong:
They aren't playing children; they are playing mentally ill people.

:twisted: :roll: :lol: 8) :twisted:
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cutecuddlydirewolf
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Re: Can't take it anymore; thus reacheth thy denouement

Postby cutecuddlydirewolf » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:30 am

Rmak wrote:Pretty sick events happening, to be sure but I am more than sure the wonderous PD would be more than happy to look into this.


So violent roleplay is against the rules now?
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Tiamo
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Re: Can't take it anymore; thus reacheth thy denouement

Postby Tiamo » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:58 am

I think Shaudawn is talking about explicitly roleplaying things like sadism and torture, without consent. That would be a showstopper for me too.
This is a game, playing it is supposed to be enjoying. For you, but also for your fellow players.
I think ...
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Shaudawn
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Re: Can't take it anymore; thus reacheth thy denouement

Postby Shaudawn » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:12 pm

Biin: Good morning, my Author. Feeling a bit better this morning? How is it up there on your high horse? Cloudy?

Me: *mumble, mumble* ...need coffee...

Biin: Come on, come on. You're getting fan mail and a couple of literary pipe bombs and I want to perform before the morn abates!

Me: Alright, alright. But, yes, thank you, Biin. I am feeling more at peace about my decision on a slow exit. I do prefer it when people play their characters to the end rather than just abruptly quit, but that's just me being a bit of a perfectionist. Anyway, what do you have for us today...another beautiful corpse to leave?

Biin: Oh, this one gets right to what you were talking about. So whilst I go and tune my guitar, why don't you give a little additional background? #ping-ping-pop!# Drat. Need to fix a string here. Go on, my good man. Rude to keep your audience waiting now.

Me: Right. Before I copy-paste my liner notes...I have a date on my thumb drive of... *reads* ...March 2016. Anyway, before the #MeToo movement became widely known. And I think I had Biin write a song—

Biin: *He clears his throat like a blue heron after discovering that fish he was trying to have for breakfast wasn't really a fish* AH-HEM! *He returns to stringing his guitar.*

Me: Sorry, when Binn had me write his songs for him it was well before the Day 5000 celebration. The following "liner notes" I wrote were way back then. I'm sad to say this is perhaps the most important and poignant song that I ever wrote for him, and of all my songs, this is the one I want the Cantr world, staff, and players to pay the most attention to. The notes in square brackets, [], were notes I added for Biin to perform. You can only do so much on the radio IC, so these brackets were left out of the original writing. But they help to convey what just words over a radio cannot. I'm presenting this out of order, so just ignore the mention of the song "Innocence" for now. I'll get to that one later in this post. Also, I'm editing my liner notes here just slightly—not for content but just to censor a few colorful wurdz.

We have a DJ in the morning on KEXP here named John. He believes in the power of music to heal and unite people. And he tells his listeners. "Good morning. You are not alone." What powerful words. Another mentor of mine also once said, "Words are medicine too" with regards to working with people on the street with mental illness and addiction. Truth is, we all need good medicine. To all you good hearts out there, "Good morning. You are not alone." These next liner notes are for you.

------------ ------------ ------------

13. CREEP
((NOTES: This one got personal. This was my first that really got real. INNOCENCE was a bit more serious, but still kind of cute. This one got dark. When Biin had me write, I was so frantic there were some songs that were partially written. This was one of them before I jumped back and finished some others. But this one I came back to. The first line just hung there. No words were coming. Just a voice. Tom Petty when he does the lower registers, barely audible, hanging between sung and spoken. Deep and gravely. "Hey there, little girl..." Gave me a shiver. I began to think about the tales I'd heard and the notes my characters came across written by people locked deep in the mountains by some sadist. Then a couple of other singers snuck in. Tom Waites stuck his head in. Bob Seger started singing 'Fire Lake' and the Eagles sang a slower version of 'Hotel California' in a way that made my skin crawl. Biin decided to leave the room for this one. This one was all me.

It was at this time that a few people died and I went to the forums for my rare visit to see if the players unsubscribed or just let their characters die. Then...I found a confession of a player who wrote some stuff down in Cantr notes and was going to unsub and didn't want those notes to sit in Cantrland forever--you'd of thunk he'd figure that one out, but...hey. I didn't like what he did, but I didn't like the responses of some others admitting worse sins. I read about people who were simultaneously disgusted and yet wanted to read. I then also remembered conversations I'd been in where some of the fictional sh* was experienced by real people in real life. I'm a wannabe feminist at heart, so when a*h*les think they can abuse women really pisses me off, even if it's "just a story." In Cantrland and in life, there's a ton of these d*ckweeds who are ~respected~ in their communities. In Cantr, I came across notes where town leaders had "collections" of naked people locked behind three layers of doors to crush hematite or weave cloth or something like that. There was one radio drama where someone boasted about being locked in a cage for his/her 'master.' One player...PLAYER (not character) PM'd me once frantically asking if she should stab some asshat with a screwdriver because he was attempting to rape her character and she didn't want to play that but didn't want to report it either because she was afraid PD would say, "Well, you were acting like a slut. What do you expect?" I told her to stab the fucker hard as she could and run screaming and do it NOW." Stuff like that. Thus, CREEP came about.

Notice the last verses--that morbid curiosity of collecting notes that are full of that sh*t and the echoing words of the forum penitent saying, "This is just how I get off, don't judge me!!! *tears*" I had to point the finger back at those saying, "I would never...but let me read it!" More emotional baggage to share: the victim goes running off and people not wanting to rock boats or point fingers blame her/him. "She/He's just emotional." Yeah, there's drama sometimes. But sometimes not. The thing about abusers is that they are very, ~very~ good at playing the game: looking remorseful and genuine, hiding and playing society's games. A lot of these people are so LOVED by others, they turn a blind eye to the abuse and even defend the scum. So how can you tell a real abuser from some psycho who wants attention and blames innocent people (because I knew a woman who also did that and ruined a few lives too)? Truth always comes out in time. Abuser or liar, you can't keep an addiciton hidden. In the end, all tides turn.

When I got on a roll, the words poured out with Tom singing the verses and Bob singing chorus, Glen/Don singing backup vocals. And when it was done, I sat back stunned. And shivered. I soooo want this produced. With those singers. Don't think the little diversion of "Let It Be" by the Beatles changes the melody to something cheery--it was deliberately ironic and I imagine it in a twisted perversion of itself, turned on its ear so that we DON'T f*in' let it be, goddammit. When I was done, Biin poked his head back in and gave me a thumbs-up, allowing me to have a big head about the song. I could hardly wait to have him sing this, but it was so far down the playlist. Too bad, too. That player had already unsubbed by then.))

------------ ------------ ------------

Biin:

Every once in a while, you hear one of those stories on the radio. Or you hear somebody's legitimate tale of kidnapping and torture. Or you come across that note found waaaay in some remote mountain location where there's this one locked building with all of these "Get Out!" signs posted everywhere that just... *shiver* ...gives you the creeps. Or you come across this volume of {air quotes}stories{/air quotes} with time stamps on them, recounting a plethora of nonconsentual and semi-consentual acts with whips, masks, feathers and a goose. Maybe there was a goose. Could have been a goat. I forget. Anyway... Let's go a little darker now, shall we? With a little song I call, "Creep." #strum-m-m#

#abrubtly stops strumming# Um...before I begin, perhaps a little listener discression is advised. If there's any little ones or topically sensitive people by the radio...probably best to just shoo them out of the room. Nothing graphic, just...well...implied adult themes of a devious and sensitive nature.

[sung in the style of Bob Seger's "Fire Lake" or something the Eagles or Tom Petty might do]
[key of G: G--- D--- Em--- Em-Em,D x4 per verse]

#guitar strumming dark chords in a somewhat heartland/southern rock style, sung in a scratchy deep dark bass voice#
Hey there little girl;
I see you're new to the world;
You sure got pretty eyes;
Let me tell you some lies; ---

Now while the whole town sleeps;
Don't let me give you the creeps;
Just come into my home;
Where we can talk alone;

#dark chorus, voice change to more a baritone#
Didn't we ever find it strange;
How so many left his place;
Crying tears and turned to flee;
He told us they were just crazy; ---

We never thought that he could be;
The reason for their insanity;
Pillar of the community;
That's why we all just...let it be; ---

#guitar strumming dark chords, scratchy deep dark bass voice is back#
Hey there little boy;
Whatcha doin' acting all coy;
You are out here pretty far;
And I see you don't have a car; ---

Won't you come in here a while;
All I have to do is smile;
Through these locked doors away from eyes;
Help me out, don't criticize;

#dark chorus, voice change to more a baritone#
Why did we think it commonplace;
All those souls vanish without a trace;
What if those tears were really true;
What if no one believed in you; ---

We never thought that he could be;
The reason for their misery;
Pillar of the community;
That's why we all just...let it be; ---

#strange bridge that doesn't quite fit like it was from a different song, somehow familiar but darker#
Let it be, let it BE, let it be-hee, let it be;
Nooo-body will question;
Let it beee-hee-HEEEEE;

#guitar strumming original dark chords, scratchy deep dark bass voice resumes#
Stay back now, all you folks;
What I wrote was, all a joke;
Don't you judge me, don't you scoff;
This is just how, I get off; ---

If I deny that this was real;
Then you won't know that I feel;
That ev'ry woman in a skirt;
Wants to be treated by me like dirt;

#dark chorus, voice change to more a baritone#
Why did we all just let it go;
Do we believe, we'll never know;
No matter how deep you bury lies;
They always come out to the light; ---

Well he just laughs and thinks it strange;
How much we wanna believe a man can change;
So he apologizes for his sin;
And then years later, does it again;

#dark chorus repeat, stronger louder angrier baritone#
Maybe we all just understand;
We're not so diff'rent in the end;
Point the finger, hope no one will see;
Claim to read his story as curiosity; ---

Hide a copy in your envelope;
Avert one eye, pretend to cope;
Go blame the victim, go back to sleep;
Another spawn, another creep;

#dark instrumental melodies play, echoing the tune over and over and over. There's a little hum in the background, subtle. Deep. Finally, the music fades quieter and quieter as some volume knob in the broadcasting room turns down, but the song, you realize as the hairs on your neck stand up, never...quite...ends...#

Donii, I need a shower now!

---- ---- ----

Me: Thanks, Biin.

Biin: *He reaches his hand out of the fourth wall and pats me on the shoulder* You are most welcome, my sensitive troubadour. But methinks upon the morrow we shall lighten the mood with some levity...

Me: Alright, Biin. Good night.

Biin: Hey, Author?

Me: Yeah?

Biin: You're not alone. *He winks like a calm owl on a snowy day, perched atop a saguaro*
--Shaudawn

"We all know that art is not the truth, art is a lie that makes us realize the truth." --Picasso

"Another belief of mine: that everyone else my age is an adult, whereas I am merely in disguise. " --M. Atwood
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cutecuddlydirewolf
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Re: Can't take it anymore; thus reacheth thy denouement

Postby cutecuddlydirewolf » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:11 pm

...at risk of sounding like a total jerk, I will nonetheless say this.

If you have a point, just say that point in a concise way. I don't think anyone knows what you're talking about when you write over 2,000 words of politically-charged dialogue between yourself and a fictional character.

It sounded like you had some good arguments in there. But they were totally lost behind all the flowery prose.
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Neva
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Re: Can't take it anymore; thus reacheth thy denouement

Postby Neva » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:54 pm

This thread has been the most creative text I've read recently involving Cantr, although it's sad to see another good roleplayer is getting pushed away by the ongoing irrational violence of boring, poorly played, factory-made characters.
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Shaudawn
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Re: Can't take it anymore; thus reacheth thy denouement

Postby Shaudawn » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:01 pm

cutecuddlydirewolf wrote:
Shaudawn wrote:Some of you players are sick. You may say you are just playing a character and that this is just a game, but anyone who knows even a bit of psychology knows that the things of the subconscious are not unconnected. One problem with Cantr is that there has never been any real effort to moderate the extremely violent behaviors. Even when that "poll" came out, what was ever done? It used to be a rule that broadcasting sexually explicit stuff over the radio was against policy. I guess that becomes moot when the subject matter is extremely disturbing violent imagery and the moderators can point to the nerfed radio range and say "at least it's not widespread" and ignore the real issues.


What a meanspirited, ignorant thing to say. Just because you personally find villainous characters distasteful hardly means that everyone else does.

Passivity and peace is why the game has stagnated. So you can be damn sure I will continue to play violent and aggressive characters, no matter what one man with a grudge has to say.


I've had characters kidnapped and killed and stolen from. I've had my character's town invaded by pirates before. I've had characters encounter other characters who were homicidal maniacs. Those were fun back then, even when my characters lost. I suck at playing bad guys, but I don't begrudge others who do. In writing, without antagonists, the protagonist doesn't grow. And protagonists don't always win and grow...we call those tragedies. In real life, people will kill and hurt and molest, and since Cantr claims to be a "society simulator" you will find those characters here too. But there gets to be a point where it goes beyond their being a bad guy. This has become one of those points, IMHO.

Now, I have my characters explore all kinds of ideas within me...some that I don't like. I ain't no saint. I'm a deeply flawed guy in real life. My character whose name rhymes with this forum name ;) explores the heritage of a small line of my ancestors who, upon invasion by European colonizers, decided that the only way to survive was to give up and assimilate. It was a way for me to safely explore what might have been had the historical things of the northern Great Plains of the real world been different; or even if they weren't different, which wasn't pretty. It's a way for me to do it without being so arrogant as some certain U.S. Senators do by claiming that DNA tests equal identity...they do not. And so I explored it because, regardless of what my DNA test says, I have no right to claim to be Cree. That was my grandmother, and she chose to become white. So, yes, Shaudawn-the-character explores most closely my own opinions and thawts [sic]. Now, that's one kind of personal exploration of ideas.

What disturbs me more, though, is that what was just said here in your second paragraph is exactly what your character has said all those many days ago (now that I know who you play). Now, I don't agree that going around and being an antagonist is what the game needs for stimulation. You are clearly not seeing that when it comes to the issue of decline, the problems are out of game, not in game, and more due to external and complex realities rather than in-game situations. But that's just my opinion, and to that I can only quote the great Malcolm Reynolds to Patience in the pilot episode "Serenity" of the TV show, "Firefly". To the game I say, "Go run your little world."

But the disturbing part is that your philosophy isn't confined to in-game. When I log off, I don't walk around with traditional clothing and a painted face not using contractions in my speech. I don't "send people West" although I do partake in a kind of ritual that involves the soil of the earth (but that's an import to the game, not an export). I build real things and try to make this a better real world. What disturbs me is that your out of game philosophy is operating out of Cantrland. In real life. As I look around me these days, with all the fake news and pipe bombs and disgruntled nuts in trees shooting members of congress during baseball practice and dictators using nuclear bombs, Twitter tweets, malware, and infiltration of social media to destroy democracy, we don't need something that comes directly out of Mein Kampf to fix anything. What made Hitler so popular was his playing the alpha wolf—Adolf. His speeches in the late 30s were mostly about being strong, powerful and criticizing the weakness of western democracies and the communists, for...guess what...a stagnating and declining world, in his view.

So, go ahead. Play your violent characters. I did ask PD for clarification on rules regarding violent role play. Unlike sexuality role play (that questionnaire sent to everyone earlier this year was only about that, not the violent stuff) I don't know if there are any rules. So I asked them for clarification of the rule for my own understanding, not investigation on a player. I'll let PD decide that. As yet, they have still not replied. I'm not holding my breath. But I believe that it is another rule that using the radio to broadcast sexual rp is against their rule or policy or whatever...not sure how that relates to the Capital Rule, but it was a policy--no sexual rp via radio, and I don't know if that changed after the great radio nerf. Again, I'll let the PD eventually work that out, and that's not even the real issue I have because it's not about how it was done (I'm afraid PD will just 'investigate' the wrong characters instead of dealing with the violent rp directly), it's about what is going on, which is why I say again Cantr is flawed because there is no explicit rule regarding violent rp. Because there isn't one, it can be a haven for that. For you, and you've made it clear, graphic and violent RP is exactly what you intend to do.

If the Departmental gods of Cantr will let me, I'd like to finish my stories with the characters I have left. If they don't...well...bad writing, but whatcha gonna do? Their baseball. Their game. If I don't like it, I can leave. So I am. You want to be sick in game. Not my problem, though I am sorry for those your character(s) is/are going to visit. Their choice. I'm assuming they are all adults with thicker skins who can make up their own minds...but, you know, with the InterWebz these days, who is to say who is really over 18 and who isn't? Certainly not for Cantr to ask and determine. No. #passive-aggressive poke# :twisted:

By the way, it did make me briefly wonder sometimes if the many visits of your character upon one of mine has become personal or in-game. No way to prove it, though. There never is. That's why PD is useless here. It just seems odd that your character started encountering a few of mine in that quick of succession, but I had originally chalked that up to a coincidence of statistics...small player base means more and more potential CR violations and encounters between a smaller number of variables. But a bit of mistrust/paranoia is another one of my many flaws...and my namesake character's. But I'll give the benefit of the doubt to statistics, another "is failed"-type reason. Anyway, as my father used to say in the Vietnam War, "Don't mean nuthin'". Go run your little world. I've said my peace, and this thread will just be Biin's outlet. (That guy...he won't let me alone. He's not a campy hamper at me these days.)
--Shaudawn

"We all know that art is not the truth, art is a lie that makes us realize the truth." --Picasso

"Another belief of mine: that everyone else my age is an adult, whereas I am merely in disguise. " --M. Atwood
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Shaudawn
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Re: Can't take it anymore; thus reacheth thy denouement

Postby Shaudawn » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:06 pm

If my writing too long... TL;DR ...simple: no one is under any obligation to read it. People have a right to disagree.

I'm not looking for debate or argument, and I'm not trying to fix anything. These songs are just a fun way for me (and Biin) to let off steam creatively.

FYI: playing Biin taught me something. Sometimes, the best thing to do to remain sane is a little bit of wacky insanity. I'm part-Biin. And yes...I am crazy. ;)
--Shaudawn

"We all know that art is not the truth, art is a lie that makes us realize the truth." --Picasso

"Another belief of mine: that everyone else my age is an adult, whereas I am merely in disguise. " --M. Atwood
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cutecuddlydirewolf
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Re: Can't take it anymore; thus reacheth thy denouement

Postby cutecuddlydirewolf » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:28 pm

It's roleplay. Writing. And I think you are taking it far too seriously.

To call a character "sick" is one thing. To call a player "sick" is another entirely. You can't seem to tell the difference, especially since you compared my character to Hitler in-game. :?

Not everyone who plays a psychotic character is an actual psychopath. It is just a game.
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Re: Can't take it anymore; thus reacheth thy denouement

Postby PaintedbyRoses » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:21 pm

I understand how you feel about the violence and sexual violence, Shaudawn. I think some players are able to step away from it, emotionally, and some aren't. I tried being just the tiniest bit mean and ruthless in game and felt so guilty, I just couldn't stand it. So I didn't play that kind of character any more. It is limiting as a role player but also, senseless to torture yourself in RL.

Here's one thing I think you should do. Stop reading every note you find. In RL you wouldn't seek out and compulsively read the details of gruesome, violent assaults (I presume) so don't do it in the game. The second you can tell what kind of note it is put it in an envelope where no one else will have to read it either. Stop playing any character that disturbs you for a while. It's just a dumb game which should be fun not traumatizing.

Also, I find your writing here to be somewhat manic. I think you should see your doctor and your therapist, if you have one. I'm not trying to embarrass or insult you. I have a therapist I see every week and it's vital to my well being.
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muidoido
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Re: Can't take it anymore; thus reacheth thy denouement

Postby muidoido » Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:54 am

I have a question. From an RPG player point of view.

What is worse? Having a char you like starved to death/murdered with NO RP AT ALL, just game mechanics, or with extreme violence/gore after you gave your consent?

I have been at the NO RP AT ALL side of this question many RL years ago and I still remember it with grudge, because it was a char very nice to play, and he was kidnapped by a famous "clan", locked inside a room for IG years to starve but managed to survive. When they opened the door and found him alive, instead of RPing ANYTHING with me, they just killed my char with axes. What does it tell me? That those players weren't interested in RP with me. My char was just a problem they had to deal before doing whatever RP they were doing between them.

My point? If the EXTREME violence was consensual, there is no reason for all the drama being unleashed here. Whatever it was is still mild compared to some torture porn going on inside locked doors. I'm starting to have the impression that people are freaking out with the possibility of loosing very old chars to some pirates and are trying to push the administration / other players OOCly to protect these chars.

My advice? If the pirates get that beloved char, don't agree with graphic violence and your char will die peacefully with a couple of game mechanics, like mine did many years ago.
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Re: Can't take it anymore; thus reacheth thy denouement

Postby Rax » Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:18 pm

Any legitimate points you might have had, and any goodwill your roleplay has reproduced, was instantly dashed away by you calling other players sick, by accusing them of being as malicious as fictional characters, all because of the way the characters they play might have acted. That's way out of line, and it has zero backing. You can't talk to people that way, even if it's online. Especially if it's online. Maybe it's easy to forget the humanity of these players when all we see is text on screen, but it's no excuse. We need to show empathy and respect when out of character. Give players benefit of the doubt, and realizing we're all here to play characters and have collaborative storytelling. That should be number one priority of forum discussion etiquette, and it's something you're failing to uphold.

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