Everthorn Pond - alphabeta testing! :)

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Tiamo
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Re: Everthorn Pond - alphabeta testing! :)

Postby Tiamo » Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:34 am

MattWithoos wrote:...
rd1988 wrote:If your game is good enough, other people would just steal your work/ make a direct copy, and redirect other players to it.

It isn't that simple. If you think attracting people to a game is as simple as redirecting other players to it, please join the Cantr Marketing team. The short answer is that it's very hard.

People would only leave if the other game offered something better, or if the original game was rotten from the core. If one or both are true, good, join the other game. I'm confused why this is a problem, especially if you're not monetizing your game and are just doing it for the journey.

Potential players of the game will probably join the first copy/clone they encounter. So the (potential) player base will be spread out. This is very bad for a game that needs a minimum number of active players to work well (like society sims do).
If you want your game to be a success (you don't just write the code, but also offer the playing service) it is best to avoid having clones.

If you just want other people to use your code, open source of course is the way to go.
Last edited by Tiamo on Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tiamo
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Re: Everthorn Pond - alphabeta testing! :)

Postby Tiamo » Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:35 am

double...
I think ...
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Alladinsane
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Re: Everthorn Pond - alphabeta testing! :)

Postby Alladinsane » Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:39 am

I kind of disagree with that Tiamo... I can see where you might think it dilutes the player base though. Maybe.

What I think is that we are choosing the wrong enemy here and not trying to drag each other down by blowing out each others candles. How about we build each other up by making products so good that each tries to give the player the best possible product?
I think of RL examples where staying ahead of the market destroyed certain institutions (forgive me if my examples are mostly USA, but its my only frame of reference. :oops: )... Department stores for example. When I was growing up, and I am not spring chicken, there were Montgomery Ward stores everywhere and they mostly dealt with home appliances etc and didn't really diversify...then came along a company that was also pretty old that took the appliances and added auto-care, clothing and bought locations that were more centrally located in malls and commerce area's... Sears/Roebuck pretty much put MW out of business... there may be a few freestanding stores left, but they are out of the competition.

But the story doesn't end there... a new monster has risen and is closing our malls and really hurting their anchor tenants... this monster began as an online bookstore (we all know its Amazon, so I will stop trying to build suspense) and they are, so far, constantly adjusting to the changing market place. Now they are doing the appliances, and assorted items and getting it to your front door in...sometimes overnight if you have the $$$... so bye bye sears. Amazon is now experimenting and may have implemented new things like home delivery with drones. A few restaurant services are also experimenting with home delivery by drone... I am getting alot of comedic thoughts about that and SNL will probably have a lot of fun with it; until they continue to innovate.

The point is that if we do not build our selves up and flatter by imitation and innovation, we will probably sink further into irrelevance. So I want to see other programs in the works... I want to be spurred on by the guy running next to me and stretch to that finish line. Who is the winner? Well, the consumer is... the player of these games is because they have some tough choices to make. Hopefully they will have the time to do both! Or more! If we are building a game or any other product we are providing a service and whether its for compensation or not, it should be the best possible product.

I am such a novice at this stuff and have no formal training in marketing, so I welcome your additions or corrections to what I just wrote, I want to learn too. What I do know is that I have a lot of choices in what game I play, what food I eat, movies I watch, colleges I attend (or send my offspring) and I am glad that those are quality choices and that I can consider the best available in all of those area's. If we provide that philosophy to all facets and products in our lives, those lives are improved. I don't want to be alone at the top (I am not there of course) but I want to be there with friends and family that feel the same way and were there with me through the entire journey. Lets all share a frosty beverage when we get there and lets smile and hug those who were there with us the whole way.

Sorry for preaching and if you have read this far, then you have a better attention span than many.

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Tiamo
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Re: Everthorn Pond - alphabeta testing! :)

Postby Tiamo » Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:26 am

What you describe is a changing market, with changes being better shop-concepts replacing existing ones. In terms of games this would be new games competing with older concepts.

The situation with open source and clones is more like having designed a new product you want to sell, while freely giving the specifics behind it to some Chinese copycat rather than having your product patented. The market size for the product will be (more or less) fixed.
Publishing specifics for free use is clearly stupid *IF* your goal is to make money selling your product: the Chinese copy will definitely hurt your sales. But if your goal is that as many people as possible will benefit from your idea, letting others do the production and sales, publishing for free use is the right thing to do.

It's just a different perspective.
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Alladinsane
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Re: Everthorn Pond - alphabeta testing! :)

Postby Alladinsane » Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:14 pm

Ah, I think I understand the distinction you are trying to make.
Thanks for the info!
I believe I'll see you do it again.
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Re: Everthorn Pond - alphabeta testing! :)

Postby HFrance » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:15 pm

People do not like code, like design. An open design and a well-structured creative process, well administered, full recorded, broadly reviewed and discussed, from conception to implementation of small details is that makes a good team of developers.
Cantr II is a social simulator. What is not working is due a problem in the society.
Cantr is like Vegas - what happens in the game should be in the game.
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Re: Everthorn Pond - alphabeta testing! :)

Postby Wolfsong » Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:28 pm

With Patreon around, you don't necessarily need to monetize your game to cover server costs, etc. Additionally, if you want to turn a profit - license the engine/codebase behind the game, not the game itself.
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Re: Everthorn Pond - alphabeta testing! :)

Postby nateflory » Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:58 pm

Anyone want to share the "bouncing code debugging" ideas off my head? I've got a good bit of not-quite-done-because-buggy, but almost playable scripts just about ready to go, but images and layout are wonky.

That said, I'd be happy to help other games out there too, to join their think-tank. My PHP is not clean enough for ProgD here (I tried once) since I'm learning on the fly, but perhaps these pre-alpha games out there could use a second eye on anything? :)


Also, to address the above thoughts, I'm not trying ot steal anyone from Cantr. Hardly. I'm trying to make my own little slice of the eWorld, in cantr's image (vaguely) with some of the changes I'd like to see, PLUS use the project as a learning tool to get my own skills up. If only 4 people ever play my game, heck, it's still a playable game that I learned from. :)
Also, why I'd be happy to bounce others ideas around too, so I get better at things, by seeing another programming perspective.
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Re: Everthorn Pond - alphabeta testing! :)

Postby SekoETC » Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:17 pm

Would you like to see my code? I'm not sure if I understood correctly what you are going for, but if you want to help other people with their projects, I could always use second opinions.
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