OOC songs on the radio

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Joshuamonkey
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Re: OOC songs on the radio

Postby Joshuamonkey » Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:45 am

My opinion:
From what I understand of the capital rule, you shouldn't use the words of real life songs, just as much as it's discouraged to name a character after someone famous in real life. It's OOC knowledge.
I wouldn't say it's as serious as some rule breaking, like using knowledge from another character for your advantage, etc., but definitely discouraged.
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Re: OOC songs on the radio

Postby *Wiro » Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:14 pm

The problem with opinions is that there shouldn't be room for personal interpretations of the rules. This game leans heavily on its strict enforcement of the rule(s). In a way it's what made Cantr successful.

The question in my first post remains. Are RL songs against the rules, or are they not?
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sanchez
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Re: OOC songs on the radio

Postby sanchez » Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:28 pm

*Wiro wrote:The problem with opinions is that there shouldn't be room for personal interpretations of the rules. This game leans heavily on its strict enforcement of the rule(s). In a way it's what made Cantr successful.

The question in my first post remains. Are RL songs against the rules, or are they not?

Nobody should be deliberately plagiarising OOC material and presenting it as their original writing in game. But it’s a little more complicated in that there is a lot of grey area with OOC ideas, and words, which do make their way into the game (cf. language names topic in General Discussion). PD has no ability to enforce a blanket rule, and worse, were they to write a more explicit one, as we saw with NCS, they would have no better ability to enforce it but they would instead be assuming a potential legal liability for player behaviour which they cannot control. So it must be handled on a complaint-based case-by-case basis. Handle it in-game where you can.
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Re: OOC songs on the radio

Postby Kyriel » Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:43 pm

There's a world of difference between copy/pasting song lyrics from the internet without even bothering to format them, and saying "platonic" in a world with no Plato.
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Re: OOC songs on the radio

Postby sanchez » Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:53 pm

Kyriel wrote:There's a world of difference between copy/pasting song lyrics from the internet without even bothering to format them, and saying "platonic" in a world with no Plato.

I’m going to pretend this is a serious question. It’s unlikely anyone has ever complained about use of the word ‘platonic’. However, if you were to spawn a char who claimed to be a philosopher and then started elaborating on some well-established OOC concepts, even without any direct quotations in the original language, there would be cause for complaint. Which is exactly why it’s enforced case-by-case.

For that matter, CR is deliberately written vaguely. Cantr is a game in which players must agree to cooperate in creating and maintaining an immersive environment for everyone. There is no nanny to hold your hand and force you to make good choices. From my experience on PD, it seemed the bulk of our work was in helping players to understand how to apply the rules to specific circumstances of their individual chars. There are very few places in the game where you could point to a hard line (and imo there shouldn’t be, as the more strictly rules are written, the more they are an invitation to some players to search for loopholes). You make choices every time you log in to avoid using OOC knowledge, or coordinating gameplay OOC. Even if PD’s tools are improved to more strongly guide players on the path to fair play, it’s still something you have to agree to work at, out of respect for your fellow players and for the integrity of the game. A more obscure source for plagiarism may have gone unnoticed, but that wouldn’t make it more appropriate.

There is a response from PD earlier in this thread that they’ve received the complaint. Unless it’s your chars who are abusing the radio, you shouldn’t expect anything more.
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Re: OOC songs on the radio

Postby SumBum » Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:56 pm

I'm not bothered by words like "platonic". If we remove that word we may as well ban at least half of every language since most words are derived from things that exist IRL and not within Cantr. I give leeway on "common" terms and phrases. A char saying "I really struck out with that trade." wouldn't bother me even though it's a phrase that comes from a RL sport. It's a very common phrase in the states that has grown beyond baseball.

The song that's being debated included words like Jamaican and Bacardi, which seems like a very clear breach of the rules to me. It would be akin to my char calling their pickup truck a Chevy or referring to their beer as a Budweiser or claiming that before they spawned they lived in a country called Canada.
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Re: OOC songs on the radio

Postby SekoETC » Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:11 pm

If only the person would bother to actually go through the song and change the terminology that conflicts with Cantr, then it wouldn't matter that the tune and the base were from real world. Simply copy pasting without thought is what ruins it. It's probably some relatively new player, but they should have their radio usage taken away if they won't stop here. Remember we used to have Cantr radio in real life and people actually made songs with Cantr themed lyrics. It's not that hard. But some people don't even want to try.
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Kyriel
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Re: OOC songs on the radio

Postby Kyriel » Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:18 am

sanchez wrote:
Kyriel wrote:There's a world of difference between copy/pasting song lyrics from the internet without even bothering to format them, and saying "platonic" in a world with no Plato.

I’m going to pretend this is a serious question. It’s unlikely anyone has ever complained about use of the word ‘platonic’. However, if you were to spawn a char who claimed to be a philosopher and then started elaborating on some well-established OOC concepts, even without any direct quotations in the original language, there would be cause for complaint. Which is exactly why it’s enforced case-by-case.

That was not at all what I said, and not even a question. I said that copy/pasting song lyrics was not the same thing as saying the word "platonic". I did not imply that someone would be talking about Plato. Just using the word "platonic". As well as any other words that have connections to actual historical figures and places, but have become part of common language with most people not realizing the association to them.
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Pilot
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Re: OOC songs on the radio

Postby Pilot » Sun Aug 16, 2015 3:45 am

*Wiro wrote:The problem with opinions is that there shouldn't be room for personal interpretations of the rules. This game leans heavily on its strict enforcement of the rule(s). In a way it's what made Cantr successful.


This game leans on their players willing to follow the rules to keep it fair while having a good time. :wink: .

The question in my first post remains. Are RL songs against the rules, or are they not?

Yes.

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