CRB`s

[Marian]

Phalynx, I completely agree with Seko's post, and going by when you joined the forum, you and me have been playing almost the exact same amount of time. So you can't call me an 'old fart' without also callingyourself one.

And it doesn't help that you're using the same tactics Bran-Muffin was trying to use in the other thread - pretending to be omnipotent and for whatever reason desperately trying to convince yourself that everyone cheats.

That only really sad people would choose these measures - people who value all the iron and 'special things' who hang onto them even if they never use them... above progress in the game - oh yeah! other oldbie players!

Yes, the 'special things' are important, but not in themselves...only in how they're used by the characters to effect their towns! You seem to assume that Seko is 'paranoid' because she doesn't want to lose her things...but all that proves is you have no idea what a 'well-developed character' really is. Like I said, you've been playing just as long as I have, possible longer, so I don't understand why you don't get it. (Though maybe because you never seemed to care about your characters you just assume other people don't care about theirs...I'm honestly having trouble understanding what you meant by a big part of your post.)

You play a game for the challenge and interaction and then remove it.. NO POINT but some cooperation to move things along.. maybe the game needs that more than a bunch of old farts whispering and trying to get other people to do their work for them!

Only that I will agree with. There are too many older chars I think people are just hanging onto for nostalgia's sake even though they don't have time to play them.

I try to increase the 'challenge and interaction' in all my chars towns, but you seem to miss the point that cooperation can be done JUST FINE while still staying IC. That's the whole point of the game, so try it some time! Try hanging onto a char until they reach their thirties for once and maybe you'll see! It's no wonder you're not enjoying the game if most of your experience has been from the point of view of newspawns who you consider completely disposable on a whim.

[SekoETC]

And in my example, the well developped character wouldn't necessarily be holding iron, nor keys. I have several characters over the age of fifty with no power nor riches what so ever. But some young punks might choose to kill them over the iron shield nearly every older character is carrying, because some people don't realize it takes time and trouble to create a well established character and want the easy way out. You think the older characters got everything the easy way? Nope, they've been working for it just like everyone in Cantr. Be that some people get lucky when a big character dies and drops a load of keys and goodies, but not everyone has the skills to hold on to them. Power equals responsibility.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

everyone cheats.

I would say at least 99.9% do within their first year, whether intentional or not, serious or not or whether they got caught or not. It might have been a mistake, but it doesn't change the fact that they did. No one said that they keep cheating. Some do, some don't. All that was said is that everyone (I personally can't hold with an absolute though, I'm sure there's at least one odd case out there out of 2-3k if not a few more.) cheats, usually within the first year and I can believe that to well be true. Just look at all the crazy, suicidal newspawns that everyone except me seems to see all the time. Don't be so naive and don't put words that aren't there. If someone said that everyone intentionally cheats seriously all the time, I might understand your position. As it is, that was never said that I can recall. Maybe I missed something, but I don't recall that or anything really like that being said by anyone.

[Black Canyon]

Hmm..... I have to say that I disagree. To me, cheating implies an intentional effort to skirt or break the rules. I really don't see unintentional slip ups as cheating unless they are followed with intentional continued behaviors that violate the CR. Perhaps it would help to all be working under one definition.

For example:


cheat
v. cheat·ed, cheat·ing, cheats
v. tr.
To deceive by trickery; swindle: cheated customers by overcharging them for purchases.
To deprive by trickery; defraud: cheated them of their land.
To mislead; fool: illusions that cheat the eye.
To elude; escape: cheat death.

v. intr.
To act dishonestly; practice fraud.
To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: was accused of cheating at cards.
Informal. To be sexually unfaithful: cheat on a spouse.

(definition by Dictionary.com)

[the_antisocial_hermit]

Good point, BC. I guess I wasn't thinking of cheating in that way so much as simply breaking the CR, because whether it is intentional or not, it's still breaking it, though not necessarily cheating, as per the definition you provided.

[wichita]

Look at the puppy!


So, BlackCanyon as usual hits an important nail right on the head. The player's intention is what really matters. I would like to think that players who honestly break a rule in ignorance of the incredibly obvious and nearly self-explanatory Capital Rule, will be quick to apologize and change their ways when the rule is explained in better detail in a calm and professional manner.

Then there are the assholes who argue back, get defensive, how dare you accuse me blah blah blah blah, many of whom procede to chronically abuse the rule in vendetta like fasion and muck up the forums in various ways.

------------------------------------------------

This is not World of Warcraft. We are not fighting non-player computer monsters for experience points. We are not following the same cookbook quest as every other player in little parallel dimensions. We are not shooting inanimate clay pigeons to win stuffed animals at the fair.

Cantr is setup so that the differences between characters are what resources they have available to them in their world, who they talk to in their world, the specific knowldege that they posses in their world, and the actions of characters about them in their world. Yes, I realize I keep repeating what Solfius wrote very briefly on page 1 of this thread, but here we are on page 4 and this concept of in their world has apparently not sunk in because we are still talking about it or something incredibly like it. The constant here for all characters is that game information stays in their world.

Yes you may plan and scheme inside your head even when logged off. So long as you don't allow one character to have access to the specific game sensitive knowledge possessed by another one of your characters, the thoughts in your head belong to your characters and those thoughts are still in their world.

If you transmit information to another character in game through the talk box, note, radio, or whatever other transfer method happens to be hard coded and accesible to your character, that information is passed in their world and is legal and a critical component of the game. As soon as you transmit information to the player of another character, that information transfer has now been completed using a mechanism that is out of their world.

As soon as information goes out of their world it has gone out of the game, which says to me that there isn't place for it in the game, which tells me it is illegal.

[marol]

I think wichita's point got it all.

[Marian]

I think wichita's point got it all.

Seconded.

Bit I'm sure this will still go on for another two pages or so anyway, until somebody starts with the flames and it gets locked.

[Bran-Muffin]

You are just dying for that to happen arent you and reading your post you sure as hell are trying to get me started again.

Dont mention me in any of your post on the open forums again. This thread was started to have a discussion, no need for your little comments about the thread going on. If you dont want to be part or annoyed by it happening then ignore the thread and let others have the discussion.

And it doesn't help that you're using the same tactics Bran-Muffin was trying to use in the other thread - pretending to be omnipotent and for whatever reason desperately trying to convince yourself that everyone cheats.

You are PD. You have access to those forums, you go look through those and see for yourself the number "cases". If it requires a PD person to contact a player then obviously something is going on.

[Nixit]

Maybe I'm a weird person or something... but I view this differently. There is the game, which is very interesting to be a part of and to experiment with different things, etc. Personally, I think that the game should be the game and the OOC factor should not interfere.

However, I also find it interesting to see how the players react to the game and to the other players, in various scenarios such as this. So in a sense, this forum is like one step between complete game world and real life. This is where it gets really dirty sometimes, but I like that. I find it interesting. *shrugs*

[Agar]

Ok, On the main page for cantr, even before you log in, there's a nice message that explains most of the game. Reading it you will see the following:

Playing always from the perspective of each individual character...

individual character

Not "playing from the perspective of a bunch college students in the D&D club IMing on AOL"

How hard is it to understand, your character only knows who and what your individual character knows?

It's not allowed to colabarate OOC, and we ARE NOT losing experienced players from it, the experienced ones know better.

If you don't like it, if you feel you HAVE to cheat to keep up, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE GAME. This isn't the usual stat trainer. This is a society simulator. We build cultures. There really isn't any "goal" to the game, we just enjoy the interaction and work on or personal goals, just like real life. There is be no gain to the In Game cultures and societies by people talking OOC, because it won't be in the game.

<SARCASM>If you still don't see my point, I'll just get together with a few others on DIM (Diety Instant Messenger) and we'll arrange some "unfortunate accidents", and a bout of litigation for you, and you can tell me if we're being fair in disrupting your existance here on earth by working together.<SARCASM>

[Diego]

Is that an Instant Messenger for losing weight, Agar?

[Oasis]

Oh wow, was it a full moon while I was away? Three hours of reading, and I still haven't been able to check my charries since I've been home.

I have so many comments I want to make, however it would take me another three hours to sift and quote and..........I have to get to bed.

From an overall perspective, getting the full brunt of this and other threads all at once, I'm flabbergasted, disappointed, suspicious, proud, concerned and speechless, all at once. (Probably more than that, but fatigue is taking over quickly)

A couple of quick responses (I can never help myself lol):

Forget it, I can't do it quickly, and I'm too tired now. Tommorrow is another day.

[Agar]

I hope you are tired Oasis, 'cause if you're drunk ... you need to not play cantr while drunk. ~Everyone~ needs to not cantr drunk.

If you're there, you know what I mean.

[g1asswa1ker]

To all of you who have voted yes to this... Please take the load shotgun out of your mouth it's not the way. To you who are unsure... this is to stir you the right way. No it is very very very very very bad to talk with others out side of your characters for the purpose of cheating.