Huge Capital Rules Breach

[Schme]

And world is not always fair or wise or logical.

You're right, that's very true.

For example, the other day, I saw this guy I knew. I punched him in the throat and then kicked him in the ribs while he was lying on the ground. Not very fair fighting. But that's how it is. The world's unfair.

But does that mean he's not going to come after me? Of course not.


I've tried explaining it too you guys, but you're not getting it.

What you have to understand is that this is not the same as the other situations. We're not trying to bring anyone back to life, and this guy was not a bad role player. He did not role play at all. There's no role playing anywhere.

There isn't paralel to this in English Cantr. It's entirely different.

And sure, yes, we could try to rebuild, but guess what? I've got stuff to do. I haven't the time. Had it been destroyed and taken legit, then I'd just give up.

But this is cheating.

It seems to me that both of you are, rather than actually making any attempt to understand, are trying to defend your initial posistions out of vanity.


And just because you were wronged before and justice was not brought about (so to speak.) does not mean that it nobody should ever try to rectifiy anything again.

Just like our friend with bruised side, I am doing something.

[Phalynx]

I am confused....

So a man works away quietly in a hard environment, suddenly he notices the boat is there open, all these things are lying on the ground, noone will stop him, they are all asleep... So he makes a run for it! Freedom from drudgery the possibility of trade...

This idea that a newspawn will only leave a town if he knows what the resources are in other areas or that other people will be there is seriously flawed, if that were the case no-one would explore!

Its sad that this area is short of characters and resources, it seems crazy to make life on that island so hard, but that is a different issue...

Perhaps I'm naturally dishonest, but half my characters would have taken that opportunity!

[The Industriallist]

How is there not a parallel to this in english cantr? A newspawn, or someone who didn't seem to really be there, suddenly wakes up, notices an opening, pilliages the place, and gets away with it by stealing a boat. It happens in the english regions as well, believe it or not. It may not be as bad for the people there, but that doesn't change the basic situation.

Schme, you were claiming that to this character, the entire world should be this one town and these two people. That makes no sense. He knows there are other places at the ends of the roads. He knows that a boat is a way of getting to other places, because that's basic knowledge. If he really has no experience beyond your 'town', it makes at least as much sense for him to expect every spot in the world has population two as to think that it's all empty.

If what Sabsi said about the player having used forum knowledge to set up the theft is true, that would be a breach obviously...but I can't imagine how one would prove it.

[tiddy ogg]

I don't see how you can prove any OOC knowledge. I quite understand how upset you are, but learning to pick yourself up and start again is life.

[Just A Bill]

Are you saying that the sleeping/account disabled character is on the boat, and if the thief would have stole the boat with the other character on board he/she would have got thumped, but knowing that the sleeping character won't wake up, was able to take the boat. In that case, perhaps it is a CRB, still it would be hard to prove, one might be tempted to assume IC that a long term sleeper has a terminal case of the infamous "sleeping sickness" and wouldn't wake up.

If the sleeping character was not on the boat, the thief would probably have gotten away anyways, so its probably not a CRB.

[Schme]

but half my characters would have taken that opportunity!

Half your characters would be cheating.

What you do not understand is that there is no other trade, there is no other places and there is nothing else.

No, it is not logical for people suddenly take off from the only home they've ever known to take a bunch of goods off into an endless ocean. That doesn't make sense.

Yes, in English Cantr, newly spawned people steal things too, but in English Cantr, people are always talking about other places, about trade, about sailing and so on. His character had know way of knowing any of these things.

And no, he did not sit around observing things. There was nothing to observe. Nothing happened ever. So he can't know anything.

But if this is the case, I have a wonderfully fun idea for English Cantr.

I'll spawn people all over the place and start stealing things. Sounds like fun, and seeing as it's not against the rules, what the hell, eh?

[Doug R.]

I'll spawn people all over the place and start stealing things. Sounds like fun, and seeing as it's not against the rules, what the hell, eh?

People do that all the time, it's what keeps my guard characters employed.

Can we get a PD ruling on this? It is obvious that this discussion is circular and nothing will get resolved.

[formerly known as hf]

I'll spawn people all over the place and start stealing things. Sounds like fun, and seeing as it's not against the rules, what the hell, eh?

It's not against the rules. I've done exactly that numerous times - I'm one of those annoying people that had a few 'spawn and run thieves'. As I've said before, It's a fun way to fill a slow afternoon.

I'd reccommend it to anyone - too many people play Cantr and 'feel bad' if they ruin another player's plans or life - it's a game for pete's sake... Cantr could do with more petty thieves, obnoxious charatcers and the like, I often feel everyone's far too nice...

[Schme]

People do that all the time, it's what keeps my guard characters employed.

You're not listening. Yes, we didn't have the manpower or resources to stop him, but he is cheating. If he was a legitimate thief, as I said before, then I wouldn't be bitching. But from where this character is, what he is doing would not make sense to him. It doesn't work. He's breaking the rules. That's why we're complaining.

I'll spawn people all over the place and start stealing things. Sounds like fun, and seeing as it's not against the rules, what the hell, eh?

It's not against the rules. I've done exactly that numerous times - I'm one of those annoying people that had a few 'spawn and run thieves'. As I've said before, It's a fun way to fill a slow afternoon.[/quote]


See, that's the problem.

It is against the rules. That's not role playing, that's just fuckin.g around.

The reason people are "Too nice" is because a real person does not go around breaking into shops in front of people who he knows will stop him.

When you just make a character for a suicide run, then you're breaking the rules. Read them.

Why do you think there is a suicidal newspawn thread.


That happening is the non cheating equivalent of having a person with the mind and knowledge of a newborn infant robbing a convenience store. A baby couldn't pull it off. They wouldn't even get the concept.

[The Industriallist]

What you do not understand is that there is no other trade, there is no other places and there is nothing else.

You know for a fact that that is false. Why are you so sure that this character would know for a fact that it was true? For that matter, the ship came from somewhere else, which would prove that such a thing existed...

No, it is not logical for people suddenly take off from the only home they've ever known to take a bunch of goods off into an endless ocean. That doesn't make sense.

You don't have coastlines in your part of cantr? Everywhere I've been, you can follow the land along until you find another landing. And the idea of following the coast is not one that should be difficult to come up with.

Yes, in English Cantr, newly spawned people steal things too, but in English Cantr, people are always talking about other places, about trade, about sailing and so on. His character had know way of knowing any of these things.

He sees roads, so he knows there are other places. Maybe not people, but places.

He sees the boat. Believe it or not, it is absolutely inevitable that at least one character has used a boat without first being educated. In fact, much more than one. Why is it impossible for this particular character to figure out how the thing worked?

Trade...maybe you think it's a great stretch, but a character being able to come up with the notion of trade without having seen it doesn't seem earthshaking to me (again, it has to have happened before...). Not that that's actually needed...the idea that having more stuff is good as a rule is trivial.

And no, he did not sit around observing things. There was nothing to observe. Nothing happened ever. So he can't know anything.

And your character, who was building things? He didn't know anything either, since there was nothing to observe? Characters are not, in general, spawned with empty and unformed minds.

[Lumin]

When you just make a character for a suicide run, then you're breaking the rules. Read them.

Why do you think there is a suicidal newspawn thread.

Spawn-and-run thieves aren't always suicidal, sometimes it just pays off to take a chance. (If they really wanted to die they'd just hit everyone and not bother running in the first place.) And boat or vehicle thieves are almost never suicidal, because they're practically guaranteed to get away with it, at least for a time.

I feel bad for your "town", but I really have to wonder if you're not letting your character's personal tragedy skew your interpretation of the rules...

Can we get a PD ruling on this? It is obvious that this discussion is circular and nothing will get resolved.[/quote]

I agree.

Though even if they do rule that the guy was doing something wrong, they might ban the player, but it's not like they're just going make the boat magically appear back in your town. They don't repair the damage any of these people do to anyone else...look at the trouble Aki had recently with all their wood getting wasted, and that guy was suicidal.

As far as an IG solution goes, you guys see which way the boat went? It might not actually be that difficult to get it back if he docks at the next coastal town, all you'd have to do is board while he was sleeping.

[SCUBA]

Why not send the town som Cantarian aid? ;)

1428-4 You se Jos Mercy (Aeroplane) drop some steel.

And for the sake of justice, let some english town get hit by meteorits or volcanoeruptions.

/SCUBA

[Schme]

I've said everything I've got to say. I could go through the whole thing again for the sake of the people who aren't really getting it, but I haven't the time. If you read what's already here, you can figure it out.

I'd just be repeating myself, you know?

[Oasis]

It is not against the rules of Cantr for a character to act illogically. It is not against the rules of Cantr for someone to steal resources and a boat, even if it's out of character. I'm sorry, but bad rp is not against the rules. If it were, we'd have less than half the players we do. (no slight meant towards any players of our wonderful game, of course )

I do not see the parallel between the sleepiness of another character and this theft, regardless of why the character (leader, if he is) is asleep.

This is a very unfortunate incident for your town, and even if there was something we could do to help you, I have no idea what that would be. We can't move the boat and all the resources back. We can't turn back time.

There have been suggestions as to how you might handle this in game. Running to the next coastal town is a good one. Killing the leader to get the keys, if this does somehow have any impact on things........does he have a key to a boat that they could use to follow this guy?

Off topic - Please do note, though, that it is considered improper playing and purposeful game disruption/abnoxious player vs. abnoxious character.......if a player continually has suicidal newspawns, hit and run thieves, note thieves, etc. In these circumstances, this is addressed with a player, and they are asked to stop if they wish to continue to play. Each character should have their own goals and personality, and not all would be thieves or suicidal.

However, even in these cases, the theft or damage is not able to be undone.

[Nick]

A few comments...

Firstly, I'd like to point out that I'm rather amused (I'm a sick boy) that my idling out has caused some havoc.

Secondly, I don't think this is a breach. Unfortunate, and bad RP, but no breach.

In my third comment I will have to agree with Schme. The staff, and CERTAINLY not the general forum populace, do not understand life in the non-english areas.