Knocker in Sil

[Mafia Salad]

In Cantr, excessive knocking is only done for one reason - to annoy the other players as much as you can up until the point your suicidal char is killed.

What on earth do you base that argument on. Not only have I as a player never been bugged by someone knocking the door off it's frame, I've also never killed anyone who did it... at least not because of or soon after the knocking.

Here's my IG experience example:

One of my characters helped lock up a guy in one town, he knocked 100+ times 2 or 3 times every day. It didn't disrupt RP, it gave us people on the other side of the door some current events to talk about other than boars and smoking meat. It gave everyone a chance to showed character by letting people see how you react to the knocking. I never even questioned if him motive for knocking was OOC or IC, we locked him in prison, so he was trying to get attention or revenge or having a panic attack or any number of things.

After four or five days the knocking bouts got a lot shorted and eventually they stopped. Some time later that guy was set free. On an interesting side note, the guy in that same town sliding notes under the prison door is still locked up. OMG a town not conforming to Cantrmonotony!?! Hit the decks the world as we know it is about to implode!

I'm glad to see that not every town takes note or knocking from prison the same way. I'd appreciate it if you didn't stereotype all of Cantr on how your characters would react to a situation.

[Sekar]

I find oasis's arguement most appealing. I think he basically believes what I believe except I guess his argument was worded better. In response to Agars argument, I apologize, now that I think about it, it shouldn't matter how the government was run, or how or why a character got trapped.

Also, in response to Marians argument, I find that stereotypical belief that knocking is used to annoy people by locked up newspawns all the time is untrue. Now I agree that if someone is only knocking, they most likely are doing it to annoy. But a large amount of knocking, combined with many notes, can be considered a way to get the attention of those outside the door, who might offer help. Besides, if we take away knocking, players would have to rely on notes. Which...could end up being very bad.

If we took away the ability to knock, we would be taking away another freedom a player has. Taking away abilities can be very dangerous, because it could cause major problems for cantr. Cantr needs to become more flexible, and create more options for players, not less.

(Last comment I have)

[Doug R.]

Oasis is a she

[Sekar]

Sorry

[Wilmer Bordonado]

I find it's an interesting discussion. Not because of the case in itself, which has been totally insignificant, but just for the ideas it has developed: we're talking about freedom, abuse, reasonableness, ¿madness?, character's goals, suicidal newspawns, social conducts, even stereotypes... I find it's a rich conversation, isn't it?

Well, my contribution:

Why PD's intervention was requested when case was solved IG? Isn't it a contridiction?
Now I'm not pointing to if PD's intervention was neccesary or not, but just wondering why the player came to them if the solution was in his/her hands, or better, in his/her town. Shouldn't PD's intervention be the last step of a long stair, just to promote IG activity? Or should PD have the must of an intervention, even when the characters involved haven't changed a single conversation among them IG?
I know -as it was said- that very case is unique, and it's not my work to evaluate the opportunity of intervention. But, in that evaluation -surely made by PD members- shoulnd't be considered the variable: "% of solving it IG"?

Wilmer B.

[Doug R.]

I can't answer for the player why they posted here before trying an in-game option; of course the PD would prefer that players try to solve problems in game using in-character methods first. However, consider this:

-If the knocker is asked to stop by the characters and does not
-If they cannot physically silence them by death or confinement to an inner room

Then I wouldn't fault any player for contacting the PD about it, even if in the end the PD felt the knocking was justified. The reason I say this is because the PD would prefer to deal with these issues on its own terms rather than the players resorting to OOC comments or threats inside the game to attempt to achieve the silence when in-character methods fail.

[Wilmer Bordonado]

I can't answer for the player why they posted here before trying an in-game option; of course the PD would prefer that players try to solve problems in game using in-character methods first. However, consider this:

-If the knocker is asked to stop by the characters and does not
-If they cannot physically silence them by death or confinement to an inner room

Yes, I do consider those possibilities. But, were they considered by PD before deciding an intervention?
Please do not misundertand me, since I'm not accusing: I'm just trying to find out which are the regular cases a PD intervention is allowed to be required, and which not.
And for me, is still a bit confusing why the request was done -and accepted- while the problem was finally solved IG. Please remember my first words about it: knocker should be killed or liberated.
But it seems there was another possible solution which I haven't considered, and it was the OOC PD's intervention. Now I'm trying to understand how it works with the other two IG solutions...
But... Nevermind. I don't want to start an avalanche from a little stone. At last, I think people at Sil were wrong on contacting PD, instead of trying all the ways to calm down the knocker by their own.
Promoting the motto "let your characters live their own lives" should be an implicit capital rule for us all.

Wilmer B.

[Doug R.]

Yes, I do consider those possibilities. But, were they considered by PD before deciding an intervention?

No, because the PD never intervened in this case.

At last, I think people at Sil were wrong on contacting PD, instead of trying all the ways to calm down the knocker by their own.

No one is ever wrong for contacting the PD about anything.

Edt: There is no magic forumla that tells the PD when it is necessary to intervene in a knocking case. All the players can do is to report it and let us decide for ourselves on a case by case basis if intervention is warranted.

As a justice of the United States Supreme Court once famously said in regards to a case involving whether something was art or pornography: "hard-core pornography" was hard to define, but that "I know it when I see it." It's the same for knocking, notebombing, or nearly every other case that comes across the PD's virtual desk. I'm sorry we can't give you a concrete set of criteria that warrent a PD intervention, but that's not how anything in the PD works.

[Phalynx]

"hard-core porn" is pretty easy to define in fact but that's an aside...


This discussion has lead me to the belief that door knocking now matter how many times, is not CRB. Unlike note bombing which leaves a headache for the town and uneccessary info on the database (although even this is reduced with multiple note handling) knocking does nothing except annoy characters (and therefore perhaps players) but this might well be intended and coulf certainly form part of RP. I like Mafia's example of the knocking petering out.. I think that was probably good RP.

I would have to ask why the town's people didn't warn the knocker and then slaughter him... either they weren't able for some reason (in which case calling the PD in seems unfair) or their IG society finds such killings unacceptable.. in which case the knocking is an unpleasatn but necessary consequence.. or they didn't kill him for OOC reasons... a number of people on the forums have expressed in the past how they prefer to detain rather than kill criminals to occupy thier slot with a prisoner characters, effectively as an OOC punishment...

Anyway my thoughts, not that anyone cares...

[Mykey]

"hard-core porn" is pretty easy to define in fact but that's an aside...


This discussion has lead me to the belief that door knocking now matter how many times, is not CRB. Unlike note bombing which leaves a headache for the town and uneccessary info on the database (although even this is reduced with multiple note handling) knocking does nothing except annoy characters (and therefore perhaps players) but this might well be intended and coulf certainly form part of RP. I like Mafia's example of the knocking petering out.. I think that was probably good RP.

I would have to ask why the town's people didn't warn the knocker and then slaughter him... either they weren't able for some reason (in which case calling the PD in seems unfair) or their IG society finds such killings unacceptable.. in which case the knocking is an unpleasatn but necessary consequence.. or they didn't kill him for OOC reasons... a number of people on the forums have expressed in the past how they prefer to detain rather than kill criminals to occupy thier slot with a prisoner characters, effectively as an OOC punishment...

Anyway my thoughts, not that anyone cares...

I care and agree, Phalynx I think it`s time to make sure every jail has cells Problem solved.....

[Duckers]

Jeeeeeeez...
Plus... Phalynx, is that you?

[N-Aldwitch]

Nice necro'ing, buddy.

Otherwise, if we're going to continue this, I am kind of with Phalynx on that.. but then again, this game is about Role-Playing, and it definately disrupts that. 20 proves a point, 100 wastes time/resources. (players and server traffic respectively)