Carrier Pigeons

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Tyson
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Re: Carrier Pigeons

Postby Tyson » Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:24 pm

I love it! :mrgreen:
Would characters between spot A and B be able to like shoot pidgeons down or something similiar like that to acquire possibly-secret or incriminating information (and then waste those plans or blackmail someone via that letter..)?
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Auryn
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Re: Carrier Pigeons

Postby Auryn » Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:03 am

I vote that we replace the current radio system with pigeons. That would cut back on spam considerably.

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Yang
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Re: Carrier Pigeons

Postby Yang » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:43 pm

Tracking radio would cut back on spam considerably and maybe they would be some wars because of radio chatter. But pigeons could provide possibility to secretly send message in bigger range than radio without repeaters could. Setting two places between one pigeon would travel could create good communication link with little delay (game would calculate distance and set flight speed so there wouldn't be instant chat). This pigeon would need some feed to keep him alive and some more for flight, so it wouldn't be so cheap to keep, so only important connections would be reasonable.
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Misato
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Re: Carrier Pigeons

Postby Misato » Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:04 pm

They shouldn't be so expensive that only the more advanced towns can reasonably keep them either. Pidgeons would be good for smaller towns that can't afford radios.
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SekoETC
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Re: Carrier Pigeons

Postby SekoETC » Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:34 pm

I suggest that each pigeon has a home coop and they can return to it from anywhere as long as it's not necessary to cross major oceans. Maybe the bird could fly in a straight line and once a day it would check if it's above water. If yes, it would gain hunger. If it gained enough hunger, it would die of starvation and the message would be lost. If it was above land, it would be assumed it found food and hunger would decrease. While the bird was not flying, it would need to be fed.

Another option would be that the bird followed roads while it wasn't crossing seas. Then it would be more likely to appear somewhere where it could be shot down.
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Yang
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Re: Carrier Pigeons

Postby Yang » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:16 pm

Keeping such pigeon should be more like to keeping other domesticated animals. You can keef few, but if you have them too many they eat way to much for one person to keep them. This way few pigeons would be ok, but more would be a problem.

Also i think finding food on land would be a problem. But setting max distance that pigeon could travel would be good enough (1500-3000 so 10-20 times radio range, but still reasonable). It could travel in one day in one direction and three days of resting and could go back. This way it would be sending messages, but no chating.
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Friar Briar
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Re: Carrier Pigeons

Postby Friar Briar » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:17 pm

bump
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cutecuddlydirewolf
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Re: Carrier Pigeons

Postby cutecuddlydirewolf » Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:50 pm

Yes yes yes yes yes! A thousand times yes!!!
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Friar Briar
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Re: Carrier Pigeons

Postby Friar Briar » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:17 am

SekoETC wrote:I suggest that each pigeon has a home coop and they can return to it [...] If it was above land, it would be assumed it found food and hunger would decrease. [...]


I support these two points. Having home coops would set up coordinates for a pigeon network between towns. I would also assume that carrier pigeons would be smart enough to stop when tired and forage when hungry.

Perhaps if there were a series of home coops set up, pigeons can 'hop' from town coop to town coop, thereby automatically feeding themselves until they reach their final destination.

I suggest also that pigeons can only be sent/fly off if they are at 'fattened' or 'well-fed' state.
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Swingerzetta
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Re: Carrier Pigeons

Postby Swingerzetta » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:28 am

Friar Briar wrote:
SekoETC wrote:I suggest that each pigeon has a home coop and they can return to it [...] If it was above land, it would be assumed it found food and hunger would decrease. [...]


I support these two points. Having home coops would set up coordinates for a pigeon network between towns. I would also assume that carrier pigeons would be smart enough to stop when tired and forage when hungry.

Perhaps if there were a series of home coops set up, pigeons can 'hop' from town coop to town coop, thereby automatically feeding themselves until they reach their final destination.

I suggest also that pigeons can only be sent/fly off if they are at 'fattened' or 'well-fed' state.


I don't think that's what was meant by a 'home coop'. It looks like Seko is suggesting that they work like actual pigeons would. Each pigeon would have only one home coop, and when taken somewhere else and released, they travel back towards it. It's much more limited than systems others have described in this thread, but limited might be a good thing, and besides, it's much more easy to use (and intuitive)

I would like to say that I like the straight line argument more than following roads. Some roads in Cantr are quite complicated, and the shortest point between two towns would definitely not be along these paths. (Plus this would require pathfinding technology). It'd be better for pigeons to appear in towns if they just happen to pass within a certain radius on the map. This would make sense to players, but allow them to travel straight still.
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Friar Briar
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Re: Carrier Pigeons

Postby Friar Briar » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:47 am

Swingerzetta wrote: I don't think that's what was meant by a 'home coop'. It looks like Seko is suggesting that they work like actual pigeons would. Each pigeon would have only one home coop, and when taken somewhere else and released, they travel back towards it. It's much more limited than systems others have described in this thread, but limited might be a good thing, and besides, it's much more easy to use (and intuitive)


Oh, I see what you're saying. :) I would like a network system of coops though, but that's just me, because I would like it if the pigeons could carry more than just notes. I'd like them to carry small objects as well, like rings or a small amount of honey to send for emergency purposes.
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kicking jay
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Re: Carrier Pigeons

Postby kicking jay » Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:58 pm

How about a compromise? Pigeons can be trained, either to a particular coop or a particular person - the original training takes something like five days, and then can be retrained - takes like 14 days or sommat.

That way, they can be used by explorers back home or home to explorers.

And some creepy town leader is going to train five pigeons to every citizen of their town as a surveillance system if anything goes :twisted: wrong. Also overly attached SOs.
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destinysWalrus
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Re: Carrier Pigeons

Postby destinysWalrus » Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:59 pm

kicking jay wrote:How about a compromise? Pigeons can be trained, either to a particular coop or a particular person - the original training takes something like five days, and then can be retrained - takes like 14 days or sommat.

That way, they can be used by explorers back home or home to explorers.

And some creepy town leader is going to train five pigeons to every citizen of their town as a surveillance system if anything goes :twisted: wrong. Also overly attached SOs.

Okay, it's official. I want.
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Greek
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Re: Carrier Pigeons

Postby Greek » Thu May 05, 2016 10:11 pm

Bump. I'd like to summarize, based on this discussion, suggestion on Polish forum and my posts on RD forum.


It's possible to train a domesticated pigeon to become a carrier pigeon.
Then it's possible to set two home towns. Each pigeon's initial location must be set in dovecote/nest. Only owner can select a new home for a pigeon, so it's necessary to travel once to the other town. Anybody is able to send the pigeon to any of these two homes.
One of the biggest problems is "storing" animals in a cage/nest. It's currently impossible, for many reasons. It'd be best to avoid it by making dovecots special buildings buildable in central areas of location or fixed buildings. Important: not possible on ships. It's only possible to set pigeon's home in dovecote.
There would be an event in central area when pigeon comes to the dovecote, even if this room is somewhere inside. Travel would take time, currently the concrete values are irrelevant.
I think that random lose chance can be achieved by just allowing the current system to work. When pigeon starts travel, then it is moved to a special hidden location (beyond the map), but still requires feed to live. If route is very long, then it becomes more and more hungry, and eventually dies if can't reach destination before that. It means that pigeon after the long fly requires some time to recover.
I also think it should be guaranteed that short trips are 100% reliable - no additional random chance to die. It's not necessary to make pigeons weaker to have them more realistic. Radios (or, rather, repeaters) were not correctly balanced and pigeons need to be competitive at least in some areas.

Pigeons should especially provide things that radios lack.
Because things shouldn't be implemented with goal of being useless.
About message length - radios allow sending unlimited messages immediately, so sending long texts by pigeons is nothing bad. It's possible to store notes in storages, so the easiest implementation of pigeon can be doing it a storage with 1g (or 0g) of free space. It would have some downsides, of course. For example it would be possible to store hundreds of notes into envelope and send this envelope easily. But it has a great advantage - possibility of sealing messages, so you can be sure that message is sent by the person you know.
There's one significant problem with sending envelopes.
A suicide character can travel to a town from far, far away, then ask for notes from town's library. After getting them can bond them to pigeon and send it away. Puff, all town's history is gone, including uneditable notes, unless sb has a copy. But it's mostly solved by books and bookcases.
There's also another issue - what happens if pigeon dies on the middle of the ocean? Jos' decision is, that uneditable notes can never be lost. So we must find some workaround. They should probably go to the nearest location, like the notes from the sunk ships do.

Code: Select all

+---------------------------------+-----------------------+------------------------------------+
|            Question             |        Pigeons        |               radios               |
+---------------------------------+-----------------------+------------------------------------+
| Speed                           | slow                  | immediate                          |
| Cost                            | feed                  | free maintenance                   |
| Reliability (reaches recipient) | big (pigeon can wait) | small, only if near to radio       |
| Security (secret content)       | secure                | unsecure, easy to overhear         |
| Credibility (know author)       | possible (seals)      | possible (password authentication) |
| Spamming                        | expensive             | free and secure                    |
| Msg length                      | infinity, formatted   | intinity, can't be formatted.      |
+---------------------------------+-----------------------+------------------------------------+

Ofc security can be achieved by data encryption, but I didn't cover that.

I think this idea is quite simple and easy to introduce.
It offers non-immediate reliable end-to-end communication between two towns. It offers unidirectional communication for travelers/sailors sending reports to their home town from long distance.
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andrzejek
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Re: Carrier Pigeons

Postby andrzejek » Thu May 05, 2016 10:17 pm

very good idea!!! I LIKE

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