EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

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Do you think this is a good idea?

a) Yes!
69
68%
b) No!
24
24%
c) Something like it only different
5
5%
d) Who cares about new players anyway?
4
4%
 
Total votes: 102
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HFrance
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby HFrance » Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:08 pm

So here it is a suggestion of emergency: implement especial natural barrier for roads (indestructible). So, we can isolate a particular territory for training in current world map.
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freiana
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby freiana » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:21 am

I would prefer to have these newspawns in a seperate world, instead of change bits of the current world for it. I have no idea how the map-making tool works either, of course, but I assume it doesn't have to be a difficult map, just grass/forest/mountains/whatever, the same verywhere, would be fine... if that is easier to make, of course ;)
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby *Wiro » Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:58 pm

Make it accessible from the normal player/character page so that staff doesn't have to go through lots of trouble to help out.
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby HFrance » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:57 pm

*Wiro wrote:Make it accessible from the normal player/character page so that staff doesn't have to go through lots of trouble to help out.

Yes. A special slot that will be released to the training staff to create characters who will be born in the capital of this closed territory with all material resources to provide support through this special character.

edited in time: The character creation system should run on a specific code for this particular slot. The spawnpoint should be unique, fixed and common to all languages ​​(the player, even the staff, continue to select the language of the character at creation time).
Cantr II is a social simulator. What is not working is due a problem in the society.
Cantr is like Vegas - what happens in the game should be in the game.
"It's a virtual world, not a theme park!" (Richard Bartle)
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby SekoETC » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:57 pm

Doug R. wrote:Both are equally difficult since no one knows how to use the map creation tool.


I sort of know how to add graphics to the world map, or at least tested it once in a local environment. The problem is aligning the visual with the physical borders, but it's not like they always matched in the rest of the game either. As long as it was something approximately in the same direction, that would be enough.
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby HFrance » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:13 pm

SekoETC wrote:
Doug R. wrote:Both are equally difficult since no one knows how to use the map creation tool.

(...) The problem is aligning the visual with the physical borders, but it's not like they always matched in the rest of the game either. As long as it was something approximately in the same direction, that would be enough.


A unidirectional band with a central area of plain+forest and surroungings mountain areas, without beach, located on current ocean, such as a volcanic island had emerged. No problem with borders if on ocean?
Cantr II is a social simulator. What is not working is due a problem in the society.
Cantr is like Vegas - what happens in the game should be in the game.
"It's a virtual world, not a theme park!" (Richard Bartle)
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby kaloryfer » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:00 pm

I selected "who cares about newbies".
This game already has a lot of problems, new players would only bring new ones.
So we do not need them.
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby Greek » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:14 pm

Some old players are bigger problem. We can replace bad old ones with new, better players. :D

I think creating separate world for newspawns would be easier, but both ideas are damn hard. It's easy to set up a new instance of the game, but trying to connect them somehow (to transfer accounts etc.) is emmm... :\
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby HFrance » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:46 pm

Greek wrote:(...) trying to connect them somehow (to transfer accounts etc.) is emmm... :\

This is why I consider the idea of blocking some roads to isolate an area of training is interesting, although nothing elegant. If we adopt this idea provisionally, we can continue the discussion, addressing other concerns, such as former players returning and encountering the training environment.

At any time in the future, if we decide to create an new island in this world or create a parallel world, this can be done without this experience represents a problem.

Otherwise, we would be stuck with this minor issue.

Obs.: old players that create much problem may be doomed to have only one character ... in the training environment. - just kidding :P
Cantr II is a social simulator. What is not working is due a problem in the society.
Cantr is like Vegas - what happens in the game should be in the game.
"It's a virtual world, not a theme park!" (Richard Bartle)
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby Spaztikko » Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:38 am

But having a fixed location would mean that the biggest towns would be literally the only ones around the newspawn town.

I'm not sure if you could teleport players, but to keep the anonymity and lack of past you could have something like:

"Great! You can head on down this road!"
Player goes to travel down that road...
*Something flies out of the bushes and hits you in the head. As you awaken you find yourself in an unknown location*

Or something like that, if it's easier to have everyone on the same world than a seperate realm or whatever.
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby HFrance » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:06 am

The characters in the training camp are not transferred to the game. They are simply abandoned. This is not a backstage where the character is prepared to go on stage. Having been approved, the player starts only with his 15 slots empty to start from scratch with new characters.

And the slot of the training character does not follow the code that regulates normal spawnpoints.
Cantr II is a social simulator. What is not working is due a problem in the society.
Cantr is like Vegas - what happens in the game should be in the game.
"It's a virtual world, not a theme park!" (Richard Bartle)
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby Addicted » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:40 am

I've been meditating on this idea and put some thoughts up for discussion. I've played many games with all sorts of training and tutorials etc. One recent one had a training area and I learned a bit there before playing. It was very useful for the mechanics and user interface, but I also learned the game culture and etiquette.

*An advantage is the many who find it's not for them won't disrupt the game. (Sleeper newspawn reduction)
* It's easier to learn and make mistakes - less intimidating. Although that does add to the experience. (Being dragged to jail for playing with the machines or pretending to sing Michael Jackson was fun wasn't it?)
* It's not as intense or drama based as the real game and some might leave before they get a real cantr experience. (yes I know this varies with where you spawn and when)
* Make it optional and recommended? Many will opt to do it if it's explained in an introductory spiel.
* Make it clear if this character is temporary and for practicing with that they need to start again in game. Then they will limit the investment to this character and use it to explore and test boundaries.
* Perhaps allow the player to decide when they are ready to play for real?
* Have trained and experienced players as teachers and let them feel free to collaborate to improve the first experience, obviously within guidelines etc.
* Have limited towns and shorter travel times etc. Have limited functions if it helps.

* A transferred character will never work IMO. The new town will be unlike the old and the other characters too.
* Don't use this as a screening tool, screening is in place already and I can't see how this will be advantageous to that process. Surely banned players and idiots, although a headache and worse to staff, are not so numerous?
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby HFrance » Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:49 pm

Addicted wrote:I've been meditating on this idea and put some thoughts up for discussion. I've played many games with all sorts of training and tutorials etc. One recent one had a training area and I learned a bit there before playing. It was very useful for the mechanics and user interface, but I also learned the game culture and etiquette.

*An advantage is the many who find it's not for them won't disrupt the game. (Sleeper newspawn reduction)
This will be a major positive impact on the game. Not only numerically by reducing inactive or turbulent populations, but qualitatively by the reduction of false expectations of veterans about the newspawn characters.
* It's easier to learn and make mistakes - less intimidating. Although that does add to the experience. (Being dragged to jail for playing with the machines or pretending to sing Michael Jackson was fun wasn't it?)
I'm sure even left many mistakes and blunders to do within the game, by inexperience. There are no conditions to make a perfect training, the training camp will be focused on the basics.
* It's not as intense or drama based as the real game and some might leave before they get a real cantr experience. (yes I know this varies with where you spawn and when)
Some dramas are propitiated, especially caused by animal attacks, character deaths by starvation or heart attack, some unruly characters will have to be dragged to a reformatory.
* Make it optional and recommended? Many will opt to do it if it's explained in an introductory spiel.
* Perhaps allow the player to decide when they are ready to play for real?
There may be not optional that the new player go through training camp, it should be mandatory even for veterans who return to the game. But to finish this experience should be in training camp a direct personal contact with the administration where the player can choose to stay there one more time (beginners) or even go to the game without live training experience (veterans). But you can not keep the character training and start playing, unless the player is a volunteer of the training system.
* Make it clear if this character is temporary and for practicing with that they need to start again in game. Then they will limit the investment to this character and use it to explore and test boundaries.
These initial instructions are available in many media: noticeboards, notes, signs - and also verbally, by direct contact with the coaches characters.
* Have trained and experienced players as teachers and let them feel free to collaborate to improve the first experience, obviously within guidelines etc.
The coaches characters will be created by players joined to the staff (perhaps a new category with the Public Relations Department). These characters will have clothing, tools and weapons, will be housed in buildings specific to each language group, equipped with radio (exclusive frequency), have cars and bikes available. These characters should strive to develop a personality, to exemplify how is the character creation, the distinction between the real person and character, to teach how they are made emotes and roleplay.
* Have limited towns and shorter travel times etc. Have limited functions if it helps.
We need a central location as spawnpoint and administration headquarters and a few places near to redistribute populations (hopefully a large stream of characters coming every day).
* A transferred character will never work IMO. The new town will be unlike the old and the other characters too.
There will not be transferred characters, except for a use by player of the name, description, personality. The training experience will not provide backstory elements. When a player leaves the training to effectively play, his character training is abandoned to starve (because the character is locked).
* Don't use this as a screening tool, screening is in place already and I can't see how this will be advantageous to that process. Surely banned players and idiots, although a headache and worse to staff, are not so numerous?
I did not understand this point, sorry.
Cantr II is a social simulator. What is not working is due a problem in the society.
Cantr is like Vegas - what happens in the game should be in the game.
"It's a virtual world, not a theme park!" (Richard Bartle)
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby Kelna » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:22 am

This is a nice idea and all, but if I was coming in as a new player and this was mandatory, I don't know if I'd come back. I was familiar with rping, what gave me trouble were a few of the mechanics and the idea that my character just popped into a town as a naked twenty-year-old. It all felt a bit directionless coming out of FTO. There, you were a baby, and your parents helped mold your interests and personality right from the start. But it didn't take long to figure out I can use their skills for that, with a little help from older or friendly characters. Repairs, (Since the item used to drop to the ground, I forgot my shield or weapon a lot) taking out an engine from a vehicle, sailing, and I still have trouble with reading a map and figuring out which road I've never been down is the actual one that I want. That's what gave me trouble, but with friends in the IRC's help, trial and error, the wiki and the forum, I eventually figured out some of the more complex mechanics.

If I had to interview with the big scary staff members just to play a game, and start a character only to have it ripped away without ending their story, I wouldn't be happy and I wouldn't feel welcomed. I also think it is going to confuse new players, and we're going to have a rash of newspawns wondering where their previous friends and acquaintances had gone, and go off trying to find them, rather than embracing the fact that they just spawned into a town and should see what actually being someone, has to offer. I understand the idea is to help out new players, but I was always the kind of kid that read the directions then wants to figure it out for myself, not sit there playing with my cards laying on the table and being quizzed, nudged and helped into making the right choice when it's my turn.

It might not affect me, but it's not something I'd want to do, either.
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby Marian » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:02 am

^^^ The main point is to learn the mechanics though. As far RPing, the impression I've gotten is not so much about staff 'quizzing' players on how to do it, but teaching by example. Basically acting as a town leader, asking newspawns to do simple tasks, and willing to step in if they need help understanding things beyond that. (It may actually be a shock at that point joining the game and finding out that real town leaders rarely speak and have zero interest in helping your character establish themselves, but nothing can be done about that.)

And you can't assume all or even most of the people who join have a background in it. Over the years I've seen quite a few new players with no idea of the difference between IC and OOC.

And I would think even an experienced roleplayer would prefer being able to immediately jump into Newbietown and start getting a handle on the mechanics rather then waiting a day or more to get approved. I can't think of any game that does manual activation anymore and there's a reason for that if you want to hook and keep new players.

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