EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

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Do you think this is a good idea?

a) Yes!
69
68%
b) No!
24
24%
c) Something like it only different
5
5%
d) Who cares about new players anyway?
4
4%
 
Total votes: 102
Kelna
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby Kelna » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:43 am

But there's been talk of only allowing certain things to be done. If it's exactly as the regular game, it might not be so bad. But it's the more complex mechanics that I needed help with, so it doesn't sound that useful to me.

I know there are plenty of people that don't, but my point was that I did and wouldn't enjoy making a character for newbietown that I put the time into developing, only to have to develop a new one when I got to the real game. I don't like the idea of having my rp judged in order to get into a game, and it has stopped me from joining other games in the past.

And honestly? If I had the choice, I would want to wait a day/days to be approved, rather than jump into newbie town. I know I'm probably in the minority, but I just wanted to throw in my thoughts, and worries. I wouldn't want this, but I understand some people might.
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HFrance
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby HFrance » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:48 am

Yes, are different types of new players coming with different personalities, moods, experiences and expectatives. It was just a discussion on HOW would this training space must be done that I wanted to see here instead a mere WHERE. This suggestion is being discussed by people who came and survived the shock of encountering an special game, unique on the internet, are experiencing its potential and its paradoxes, and are staying with a degree of contentment.

But everybody here can see that the development of this game follows a coherent project, however strange it is the cantrian world. The manual approval is indispensable item for prevent the explosion of the capital rule violations. Automatic admission would imply a huge amount of multiple accounts (multiple chars of same person, multiple illegal cooperations, multiple suicidals newspans, etc) to be created and a herculean work (on a voluntary basis) for the Players Department reverse its devastating effects.

Currently we are able to respond to all pending accounts within 24 hours, on average. And this excellent result is likely to be maintained if the training phase is created. Likewise, a player who already has some knowledge of roleplay, simulation of societies and virtual worlds, can demonstrate on these 24 hours that dispenses this training phase and require his approval. While waiting he can experience one of the most dramatic events that occur in real Cantr, which is a crowd of people suffering from a mysterious sleeping sickness, having to be fed, sheltered from attack by animals, starving or dead by heart attack etc.. Also the cantrian experience of being offended and attacked for no reason, after he was stolen by someone who has just come up, and witness him being chased, dragged and arrested by soldiers. And all this being done by characters concerned with producing food, medicine, fuel for vehicles, shields, etc ... as in real Cantr.

If we say to him that due this phase of training this whole drama is being effectively reduced into real cantr, I think he will understand its usefulness, if he is a potential good Cantr player.
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Black Canyon
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby Black Canyon » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:25 am

I guess I never thought of this as a phase in which a potential new player's roleplay would be "judged*. If that's the case I don't like the idea at all. I generally dislike the whole idea of judging another's roleplay and .... wow... talk about intimidating and elitist. We'll be lucky if we get any new players with that kind of attitude.

It is my thought that this should be a way that new players will feel more prepared for the game... learn the basic mechanics, etc and this while they are awaiting account activation. And if there is a way to keep the character that they spawn in the Newspawn Planet.... and bring them into the cantr world... that might be cool, too.
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Addicted
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby Addicted » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:48 am

Black Canyon wrote:Because he didn't do it himself, I'm making this an official suggestion :)

EchoMan wrote:I have been playing with the thought of newbie towns without roads. Staff would have a character there, and new players first char would spawn there, and be locked there until approved, while learning the ropes of the game. You would only be able to spawn one character until approved. There would be an entrance to "something" to enter the game for real, but it would only work after approval. When entering the char would spawn somewhere along the lines of normal spawning.

If we had something like this, there would be enough time to review applications, and the player would get a feel for the game meanwhile.


I agree with Black Canyon's last post. My meditating brought me back to the original suggestion by EchoMan. The discussion diverted this to a tool to process players, which I also disagree with, among other possibilities.

Kelna and Marian, I saw the main reason for EchoMan making the suggestion (he can clarify) was to have an instant way to get an idea of the game. Instead of waiting for approval, the player would be able to 'play' in a limited fashion immediately.

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HFrance
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby HFrance » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:57 am

In my mind there not would be a judgment of roleplay. Moreover, the roleplay is not mandatory in Cantr, characters can stay silent the whole life, have no noticeable physical appearance, vague personality and the player may be limited to pushing buttons, despite being the roleplay the ultimate goal of the game.

The evaluation is about those mistakes that beginners usually practice about what is an emote, an ooc speech, the consent for special content. Also on the rules of the game, on the distinction between the characteristics of a character and its corresponding player, and many others that are often targeted by OOC in-game or on the forum.

Was never allowed to players criticize the roleplay style each other within the game, and will not be in the training environment this would occur.
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freiana
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby freiana » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:42 pm

HFrance wrote:...The evaluation is...


This, for me, is really the wrong word. New players shouldn't be evaluated, or forced to learn. For me, the main things is, they -can- play while waiting for admission and if they want they -can- learn a bit about the game there. The few players that spawn and confuse OOC/IC are not really what this is for imo; this is for the many players that subscribe to the game and never come back because of the waiting time for approval. (From what I've heard, throughout the weak approval time is short, but in the weekend it is longer, while I would guess that most subscriptions happen in the weekend)
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby HFrance » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:20 pm

Well, let's examine the suggestion if its main function is just for a fun waiting room.

As the area is closed, the simulation options are limited. There will be no possibility to have many resources to work with. Many items can not be produced. There will be no possibility of exploring unknown territories, especially by sea, causing frustration. The concentration of newcomers in an small enclosed area is very large. The concentration of abandoned or dead characters will be great too, causing an emotional impact and giving the wrong impression that the game is depressing and caotic. The concentration of characters from different languages may cause an impression that is very difficult to play ​​and an impression of chaos.

if there are not strong indications that this initial scenario is not one that will be found in the game and that is only for training, beginners will have a mistaken impression of what they will find there. A mistaken initial impression of the game will certainly be worse than the lack of any initial impression. Using the metaphor of the kiss, the first kiss can not be given in monster lips or we never will want to kiss anyone else.

A merely illustrative scenario (but illustrative of something unreal) never attract volunteers to work on it playing a role of mere actors in a poor farce. Beginners would certainly stay alone and lost there. It is necessary that this scenario has a special purpose that justifies it to be anomalous. And it becomes clear that this scenario is especially different from what people will find when they enter the game.

This purpose is training. But do not train really nothing if you do not want people to learn. The intention of the scenario should be teach and for this that it exist. This intention should be explicit and intensive to teach. Since it will never be able to truly illustrate the game. We can not force anyone to learn, but we must provide learning to those who want. And we can offer training with fun in this special territory.
Cantr II is a social simulator. What is not working is due a problem in the society.
Cantr is like Vegas - what happens in the game should be in the game.
"It's a virtual world, not a theme park!" (Richard Bartle)
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freiana
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby freiana » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:25 pm

I assumed the max time a newcomer would be there is three days. Just the time it takes to be accepted into the game. So, there is no time for exploring or making lots of things. In that way it is not mainly about -teaching-, it is more about giving a very short introduction to the game. The PD gets three days to accept a player, the player gets three days to decide whether or not they like the game. The real learning process takes much longer (I'm a second time player, have been around for a year this time, and am -still- learning things) and cannot be -really- effective in a seperate world because the history of Cantr says so much about the way we play.
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby Addicted » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:31 pm

What she said.
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby HFrance » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:03 pm

freiana wrote:I assumed the max time a newcomer would be there is three days. Just the time it takes to be accepted into the game. So, there is no time for exploring or making lots of things. In that way it is not mainly about -teaching-, it is more about giving a very short introduction to the game. The PD gets three days to accept a player, the player gets three days to decide whether or not they like the game. The real learning process takes much longer (I'm a second time player, have been around for a year this time, and am -still- learning things) and cannot be -really- effective in a seperate world because the history of Cantr says so much about the way we play.

I agree with the training can be just the basics. But can also be more than the basics, depending on the need and desire expressed by the player. Three days is the ideal time for the PD to approve the account in its aspects that currently PD evaluates. So, three days is not the max ideal time for the player stay in training (or presentation, if you like) territory. It's the min ideal time for this, depending solely on the desire and need of the player. Even approved by the PD, he can continue training in the area until he triggers the mechanism set to enter the game. Perhaps he prefer a more time to try things but, mainly, to read the OOC material that will be available in noticeboards, notes and signs, see the examples of what is possible like buildings, vehicles, clothing, tools, machines, weapons, etc and how projects works, and to talk with other characters to train roleplay or ask questions. The features of a real learning process depends on each one, and we can get a proper solution to meet different personalities, expectations and experiences.
Cantr II is a social simulator. What is not working is due a problem in the society.
Cantr is like Vegas - what happens in the game should be in the game.
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby Marian » Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:06 am

A day there really wouldn't do much for someone completely new, I don't think.

If it was up to me I'd structure it as some scenario like:

1.) Player spawns, staff greets them and gives them basic tools and clothes, tells them to read the notes, the usual.

2.) Staff explains they need something or other to escape from Newbie Town. (hot air balloon? Worked for Dorothy ;) )

3.) They get assigned to work with other newbies on some project related to that...this shows them how projects and machines and tools work and how important cooperation and RP is. The project should be short but still give them an idea of how the tick system works.

4.) Staff loads a passel of newbies up in a car and takes them one location over to gather some needed resource, this demonstrates how traveling and resource gathering works...it can be explained that walking on foot takes much longer...and then they return and put the finishing touches on their balloon.

5.) Just as they're preparing to leave, another staff member arrives and demonstrates combat by attacking and dragging them all and then stealing their balloon. Newbies are crestfallen until it's revealed that the ruby slippers handed out in the beginning were all that they needed to enter the real game all along. :lol:
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby HFrance » Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:58 am

Good, Marian. That is where we outlining the function of this space. Here's my example script:
1) Player create an account and receives a statement that, to prevent multiple accounts, the staff of the game adopts as standard procedure to make a checks and data verifications of internet connection and within 72 hours his account may be released to play in the world of Cantr. And that, pending, he can try the game creating a special and temporary character in an limited environment where he can learn a little more about Cantr.
2) It presented him the special character creation page where he chooses language, sex and name. When the process finishes, that character is sent to a main location for training or waiting where he can encounter several other characters, some resources, some objects (especially a noticeboard), some vehicles and a large mansion with open doors and windows.
3) There is a high probability that he will not be welcomed immediately by another character. But he can read the noticeboard in dozens of languages​​, the welcome message and instructions to enter the large building "Language Institute" and enter the room for his language. Entering the room, he can find another noticeboard in his own language, with more detailed information on how the game is (and clarifying that this content is OOC and OOC means ... etc).
4) In this room there will be cabinets and chests where he can get what he need (clothes, food, roleplay items, etc.), and several other characters working or just waiting like him.
5) And maybe the next day, when the player back online, he may find that many other characters entered the building as confused as he is, other characters gave him welcome and some instruction, some characters was dragged to other sub-rooms, and some other events .. . and so on.
6) Then, after the period, he receives news that his account was approved and that can create real characters in the normal environment of the game, simply trigger a response button. Reminding him that by doing this, this particular character will cease to exist and no longer have access to the training space.
Cantr II is a social simulator. What is not working is due a problem in the society.
Cantr is like Vegas - what happens in the game should be in the game.
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EchoMan
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby EchoMan » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:45 pm

However much I like some of the suggestions I have read, some of them requires huge amounts of code changes to realize. My revised scenario (after having let the whole thing rest in the far back of my head for a few months) goes something like this:

1. When a new player signs up there will be a notice (pretty much what HFrance wrote in #1 just above here) explaining that it will take some time to get accepted. Hopefully never 72 hours, then we really need to look over our routines and staffing. :)

2. The player will have the option to create a temporary character in a playground in some of the supported languages. There will be one playground per language supported by at least X volunteers.

3. The temporary character will be spawned in a normal town, where the volunteers hopefully have written some decent introductory notes. I am sure the linguists in PR can help out here, if they are not already the volunteers themselves. The town should have a few buildings and vehicles (some locked some unlocked etc), resources and animals. The volunteer staff would hopefully set up projects, so the new player can get a feel of how the day to day business in a Cantr town works.

4. Most importantly, communication. If there is a new player interested in learning they will have questions.

5. When the player is accepted, they can create new normal characters, but they will still have access to their temporary character for a few days, if they need to ask more question. (Should hopefully reduce OOC questions about the game interface in the main game).

The technical aspect of the implementation is best left to ProgD and does not need to be discussed here.
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby HFrance » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:56 pm

EchoMan wrote:However much I like some of the suggestions I have read, some of them requires huge amounts of code changes to realize. My revised scenario (after having let the whole thing rest in the far back of my head for a few months) goes something like this:

1. When a new player signs up there will be a notice (pretty much what HFrance wrote in #1 just above here) explaining that it will take some time to get accepted. Hopefully never 72 hours, then we really need to look over our routines and staffing. :)

2. The player will have the option to create a temporary character in a playground in some of the supported languages. There will be one playground per language supported by at least X volunteers.

3. The temporary character will be spawned in a normal town, where the volunteers hopefully have written some decent introductory notes. I am sure the linguists in PR can help out here, if they are not already the volunteers themselves. The town should have a few buildings and vehicles (some locked some unlocked etc), resources and animals. The volunteer staff would hopefully set up projects, so the new player can get a feel of how the day to day business in a Cantr town works.

4. Most importantly, communication. If there is a new player interested in learning they will have questions.

5. When the player is accepted, they can create new normal characters, but they will still have access to their temporary character for a few days, if they need to ask more question. (Should hopefully reduce OOC questions about the game interface in the main game).

The technical aspect of the implementation is best left to ProgD and does not need to be discussed here.


The insistence that I make to be a single spawnpoit for all languages ​​is based on the operational difficult of the teams of volunteers. Require that every day there's a player of each language available in the respective training space may be unfeasible. If the spawnpoint is unique (using buildings to distribute), bilingual volunteers can meet the needs that arise, especially for players whose language is not being represented at that time. Also the cumulative players of various languages ​​will be a greater number of active characters to compose the diorama (remembering that the activities of drag abandoned characters will be commonplace). And finally, the presence of characters from various languages ​​give an example of what can actually be seen in the game, and will be a great opportunity to explain the rule of learning languages​​. Anyway there is need to create a special code to handle the creation of this test-character, since the current code which governs the spawnpoints may not be applied. And this would be in this special code an unique spawnpoint for all languages​​. Sorry to insist on this point.
Cantr II is a social simulator. What is not working is due a problem in the society.
Cantr is like Vegas - what happens in the game should be in the game.
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EchoMan
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Re: EchoMan's New Player Newspawn Planet

Postby EchoMan » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:46 pm

There is that, but on the other hand it may be utterly confusing if several discussions are going on at the same time in different languages. And if there are 10 volunteers online the response for a "slow paced game" could become overwhelming for a new player. And there are actually rather few places in game that are multilingual more than perhaps two languages.

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