Decreased travel time or distance (New Thread)

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Do you like that idea?

Yes
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No
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Total votes: 86
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Tiamo
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Re: Decreased travel time or distance (New Thread)

Postby Tiamo » Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:09 pm

If you want to retain the proper proportions, you should change ALL speeds by the same factor (double or triple). Anything else will create mayhem.
I think ...
Yang
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Re: Decreased travel time or distance (New Thread)

Postby Yang » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:29 pm

Tiamo wrote:If you want to retain the proper proportions, you should change ALL speeds by the same factor (double or triple). Anything else will create mayhem.

Sure, change ALL by same factor = add 20 to speed. This way walking would be 30, bike 75 on highway, and bus 308. This way already fast vehicles would get relative small bust in speed, and slowest one would have speed tripled. Wooden cart would gain even more. I'm not sure what to do with ships. Making them faster could create some problems. For example adding same speed factor would create too fast very small ships. Also multiply speed for raster would be very strange. For example fully sailed raker without much cargo travel so fast, that person without scope cant see where he is going in 2 hours. If we make it faster, then every hour movement would be blind if that person dont have telescope. Also this ship is already fast. And traveling on land should be faster, but more expensive then on sea, so i dont think we should change speed for ships.
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Bmot
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Re: Decreased travel time or distance (New Thread)

Postby Bmot » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:42 pm

Yang wrote:
Tiamo wrote:If you want to retain the proper proportions, you should change ALL speeds by the same factor (double or triple). Anything else will create mayhem.

Sure, change ALL by same factor = add 20 to speed. This way walking would be 30, bike 75 on highway, and bus 308. This way already fast vehicles would get relative small bust in speed, and slowest one would have speed tripled. Wooden cart would gain even more. I'm not sure what to do with ships. Making them faster could create some problems. For example adding same speed factor would create too fast very small ships. Also multiply speed for raster would be very strange. For example fully sailed raker without much cargo travel so fast, that person without scope cant see where he is going in 2 hours. If we make it faster, then every hour movement would be blind if that person dont have telescope. Also this ship is already fast. And traveling on land should be faster, but more expensive then on sea, so i dont think we should change speed for ships.


NO... If you change all by the same factor, every speed will be multiplied by that (say 2 or 3) So if walking would become 30, your bike would go to 165, etc.
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Doug R.
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Re: Decreased travel time or distance (New Thread)

Postby Doug R. » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:28 pm

Yang wrote:Sure, change ALL by same factor = add 20 to speed.


This is the wisest solution. I'm not sure ships need to be touched at all.
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Jos Elkink
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Re: Decreased travel time or distance (New Thread)

Postby Jos Elkink » Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:25 pm

Haven't read the whole thread, but ... could of course make a system where the all speeds are multiplied with or added with one particular value, but where this value is computed on a monthly bases as a function of the number of characters in Cantr. That way, we can now increase speeds to decrease the world size, but as population density increases, lower speeds again :) ... Just to make things unnecessarily complicated ;)
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Black Canyon
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Re: Decreased travel time or distance (New Thread)

Postby Black Canyon » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:17 pm

Jos Elkink wrote:...That way, we can now increase speeds to decrease the world size, but as population density increases, lower speeds again :) ... Just to make things unnecessarily complicated ;)


Jos.... you are awesome :lol:
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Oasis
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Re: Decreased travel time or distance (New Thread)

Postby Oasis » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:45 am

A says "How long does it take to walk to X?"
B says "I'm not sure, how many people live there?"

If these calculations would be easy to program and run, no problem. But if not, I'm sure if we ever become so overpopulated that travelling seems too fast, we could make adjustments. :P
Nalaris
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Re: Decreased travel time or distance (New Thread)

Postby Nalaris » Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:30 pm

Jos said "number of characters in Cantr" not "number of characters in the destination." Movement speed would be volatile, but would be consistent across the entire world.
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Oasis
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Re: Decreased travel time or distance (New Thread)

Postby Oasis » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:58 pm

I realize that, Nalaris, it was just a joke. I don't like it either way, I wanted walking to be faster back at our population peak.
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Re: Decreased travel time or distance (New Thread)

Postby Jos Elkink » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:49 pm

Doug R. wrote:
Yang wrote:Sure, change ALL by same factor = add 20 to speed.


This is the wisest solution. I'm not sure ships need to be touched at all.


Probably explained above, but I'm not clear as to why you would add rather than multiply ... Should the increase not be X%, rather than a fixed amount?
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Henkie
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Re: Decreased travel time or distance (New Thread)

Postby Henkie » Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:16 pm

I'm with Jos here, adding them all with the same number will mess with the balance we have right now...
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Re: Decreased travel time or distance (New Thread)

Postby Yang » Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:48 pm

Jos Elkink wrote:
Doug R. wrote:
Yang wrote:Sure, change ALL by same factor = add 20 to speed.


This is the wisest solution. I'm not sure ships need to be touched at all.


Probably explained above, but I'm not clear as to why you would add rather than multiply ... Should the increase not be X%, rather than a fixed amount?

Main issue is walking speed. Traveling on foot is way to long and also can make new people resign from game as they will be walking for few days and nothing they can do this time. Also beginning characters that cant build vehicle are doomed to death. So we need at least double speed of walking. But if we double speed for cars then all of them will travel 1h between locations, they will be way to fast. Also we presented calculation about comparing walking speed and bus speed. On highway its 166,8 km/h if walking speed would be 6 km/h (average walking speed). If we would calculate walking speed as when somebody is in hurry (even up to 10 km/h) then bus speed would be 250-270 km/h.
So we can see its already unbalanced. So adding constant value to all speed would affect slowest ones, and add not so much to those what are fastest. This should bring better balance and make world a little bit smaller, in low developed areas this change would be more significant then on island full of highways.

Also i was thinking about added value. Adding 20 would make walking 3x faster. Maybe first we should try 2x, so adding 10 to all values. This would bring better balance.
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Re: Decreased travel time or distance (New Thread)

Postby Jos Elkink » Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:09 pm

My worry would be that it really reduces incentives to build vehicles - the difference was large on purpose in the original design of the game.

If walking speed is the only problem, you can simply change that, of course, and leave all else. But that does reduce the value of vehicles.

I haven't played Cantr myself in quite a while, but my impression is that there are really quite a few vehicles around already, including many abandoned ones. So isn't access to a vehicle already a lot easier?
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Re: Decreased travel time or distance (New Thread)

Postby Yang » Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:23 pm

Not in all places there is access to rubber, so vehicles are hard to get there.
Vehicles make possible to work when traveling, and ability to carry more then 15 kilo. Even small wooden car that is slower then walking speed is used when there is no other option (only vehicle build without rubber). But there are places that even wood is hard to get, so there is no possibility to build any vehicle.

On islands where was created civilization and all people died, there are some vehicles. In high developed places people use better vehicles, and abandon some others (like small wooden cart), but other places, dont have vehicles and raws for it. Also when there will be implemented taking vehicles with ships, all valuable vehicles near sea will be taken and sold to others.

And there is one more thing. If we make walking faster and leave other speeds alone, then walking could become faster than using a bike, or skateboard. That's why add constant value to all land speeds, so we travel faster, but at good balance, so vehicles still are very needed.
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Black Canyon
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Re: Decreased travel time or distance (New Thread)

Postby Black Canyon » Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:02 pm

Jos Elkink wrote:I haven't played Cantr myself in quite a while, but my impression is that there are really quite a few vehicles around already, including many abandoned ones. So isn't access to a vehicle already a lot easier?

It depends, really. In some areas there are numerous vehicles sitting around, sometimes in abandoned villages. However, they are frequently locked. And rarely does a newspawn have access to a crowbar.

I think the issue is that the world of cantr is quite large... and the population of cantr is relatively low. In order to remedy that fact, we need new players and that means interesting roleplay or gameplay early on in order to engage them. I personally have had characters spawn in areas with a couple of sleepers and little or no food. Their only real choice is to either gamble that the sleepers will wake up and have food or head out walking and hope for the best. Consider that scenario for a brand new player who has no game experience and no other characters yet. Waking up and walking for actual days on a deserted road isn't exactly most people's idea of fun.

In addition, in those areas that have sparse populations (most) can only benefit from more interaction between towns, both trade-wise and socially. I have more thoughts on this but I'll stop for the moment.
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