Staff neutrality rule suggested.

Threads moved from the Suggestions forum after rejection

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Cogliostro
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Staff neutrality rule suggested.

Postby Cogliostro » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:05 am

Very often you'll hear it claimed even by older players that Cantr is a peaceful RP sandbox, with no place for swashbuckling, violence, global strife and testicular competition. Those who still believe this are invited to re-read the original game description you got when you joined the game, penned back in the day by Jos himself.

It clearly states that the ideal in Cantr is that you can be anyone you want, a farmer, a builder, and yes - a pirate!

So it's disconcerting to say the least how many historic suggestions (not just those invented by yours truly, many of which clearly do turn out not as genial as thought at first) are rejected by staff on grounds similar to "it will help the pirates" or "we might endanger our older characters". More than that, there are constant meddlings involving nerfing weapons, items, healing and energy products that used to help the evil doers to do their evil before this was finally discovered and rooted out in the name of artificially protecting peaceful or established players, via sudden and unexplained alterations in the game mechanics.

Those same peaceful players, if they have an intellectual conscience, would agree with me - that's just not right. In "Suggestions" we have no such mandate as "protecting the peace", or "ensuring that established town leaders remain in the positions they grabbed forever". The opposite, actually. We must foster disorder and carefully nurture the chaotic element, to create an exciting environment with things to fear, things to love, for pirate and farmer alike.
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psychowico
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Re: Staff neutrality rule suggested.

Postby psychowico » Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:44 am

You read in my heart.
"Please give us a simple answer, so that we don't have to think, because if we think, we might find answers that don't fit the way we want the world to be."

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RedQueen.exe
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Re: Staff neutrality rule suggested.

Postby RedQueen.exe » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:39 pm

You're making the very common mistake around here of equating consideration of the WAY that violence in cantr plays out, with a complete avoidance of violence, which simply isn't true.

If you go back and read the suggestions without thinking you already know what the critics are saying, you will see that most of the objections are to things that empower surprise attacks that don't give the defenders time to respond before they die.

If YOU had read just a LITTLE bit further, you'll notice that the very next thing stated, and this time in big bold letters, is that cantr is a SLOW PACED GAME. Encouraging the criminals to act via surprise without RP, contradicts both the slow paced nature of cantr AND the role-playing aspect of it.

The reason people complaining about this sort of "pacifist" bias keep getting more or less just ignored, is that you haven't even bothered to understand what it is you're objecting TO. When you can respond to the actual objections, rather than what you imagine them to be, you'll be taken more seriously.
"What I really don't understand is what kind of recipe do you want because you talked about porn, phones and cooking and I became lost" - Vega
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RedQueen.exe
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Re: Staff neutrality rule suggested.

Postby RedQueen.exe » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:45 pm

That said, there also doesn't appear to be an actual suggestion anywhere in here. Moving to rejected.
"What I really don't understand is what kind of recipe do you want because you talked about porn, phones and cooking and I became lost" - Vega
"Fate loves the fearless" - James Russell Lowell
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psychowico
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Re: Staff neutrality rule suggested.

Postby psychowico » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:09 am

You speak like it should look, RedQueen. But it isn't true in all case (more - in many case) in my opinion.
"Please give us a simple answer, so that we don't have to think, because if we think, we might find answers that don't fit the way we want the world to be."

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Cogliostro
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Re: Staff neutrality rule suggested.

Postby Cogliostro » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:33 am

No, RedQueen, and psychowico is right.

We, the Cantr pirate party, are also strongly against everything instant. We hate clickfests just like other players, for example you.

That is why I advocate: the abolishment of instant dragging, the abolishment of instant healing, and the abolishment of instant docking. The thoroughness and consistency of what I've been proposing escapes the notice of decision makers, they prefer to think I am a troll.

Like you, I want to see the big picture. The big picture is that Cantr Staff often have to meddle with the game to make crime, pirate attacks and other player-created disasters impossible, as these tend to make players unhappy. At the same time, the flawed insta-everything rules stay the same, so that for example where the pirates can't get an advantage nowadays that they could before, the townies (defenders) continue to be able to, if they're fast clickers.

That can't be right, don't you agree?

The correct answer is to bring new rules which would be neutral, would treat players equally regardless of their "alignment" with social good or social evil. This work has been started years ago. But we face constant resistance from players who refuse to lose the unfair advantages they gain under the current system. They wrongly complain that evil aligned characters do not belong in Cantr. They stall excellent suggestions with sidetracks about realism. They close, lock, and reject threads containing critical issues that need to be discussed to the fullest and decided upon.
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RedQueen.exe
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Re: Staff neutrality rule suggested.

Postby RedQueen.exe » Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:13 pm

I don't understand why you think pirate attacks are impossible under the current system. They still happen, I've seen them.

The main problem any pirate force has currently is amassing an army interested in some such thing. Usually, there don't seem many people willing to do it, and the groups tend to either get ratted out and caught early, or just never get off the ground - probably for the same reason no "socially beneficial or neutral" groups are getting off the ground either. People don't currently seem willing to join upstart organizations of any sort.

Part of that is there just being less people in the world, with the population more sparse, finding other chars with similar interests is difficult.
"What I really don't understand is what kind of recipe do you want because you talked about porn, phones and cooking and I became lost" - Vega
"Fate loves the fearless" - James Russell Lowell
Cogliostro
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Re: Staff neutrality rule suggested.

Postby Cogliostro » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:54 pm

RedQueen, people are unwilling to do it because it's impossible (suicidal stupidity) to do. End of story.

The pirate attacks you "see" nowadays are pathetic clickfests, and hardly deserve the name. There is no roleplay, no tragedy, no fear and no risk. All of these things were safely removed by one amendment or another, all to protect the innocent.

Note that it's not the fault of the pirates, but of the way the system works and the way the playing field has been deliberately tilted.
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RedQueen.exe
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Re: Staff neutrality rule suggested.

Postby RedQueen.exe » Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:32 am

Except that most of the things you're in favor of are the things that have been enabling the mindless clickfests (e.g. tea).
"What I really don't understand is what kind of recipe do you want because you talked about porn, phones and cooking and I became lost" - Vega
"Fate loves the fearless" - James Russell Lowell
Mitch79
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Re: Staff neutrality rule suggested.

Postby Mitch79 » Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:34 am

Wrong, I had a very very successful pirate that lived until the age of what...110 / 115...something like that. She was very successful in what she did and VERY involved in rp in her piracy. There are ways to get it done, if you're resourceful enough.

Not to mention I rather enjoy the challenge of piracy and how to work around it.

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