Combat - the Simple and Sweet version.

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Cogliostro
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Combat - the Simple and Sweet version.

Postby Cogliostro » Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:16 am

This is not a thread for "what if" rumination about possible new combat systems for Cantr. Let's keep this one to specific and simple suggestions only. Intended to make the current system (with all its faults) better for right now, not the indefinite future.

Suggested alteration combo for the combat rules:

1. Hitting anyone causes the attacking character to not be able to move for 8 cantr hours. During this time they are vulnerable to dragging, return fire, etc. (*)

This heavily disadvantages various vigilantes and evil character styles. So:

2. Add a chance of "critical hit" - when the normal damage output of a character is scaled way up, permitting a single hit with a powerful weapon to sometimes kill the defender in one hit. The chances are dependent on the relationship of skill and strength between the attacker and defender character. The more skilled and strong the attack, and the weaker the defender, the higher the chance that the victim will suffer a "critical" and possibly die, or be very damaged.

(*) if an attacking character is in a vehicle/ship, I think the entire vehicle should lose the ability to move for 8 hours, though other (presently non-attacking) characters inside the same vehicle can move to exit it or enter again.

That's it. Imagine a couple of typical scenarios: a thief, a pirate attack on a town, a pair of rivals duelling etc., and you will begin to see the intent of this suggestion - making combat even a little bit more balanced, exciting and meaningful part of the game.
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MrDudeBroMan
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Re: Combat - the Simple and Sweet version.

Postby MrDudeBroMan » Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:28 am

I'm not sure I like the idea of critical hits.
As it is, a character with a stronger fighting skill versus one with weaker skill is still going to have an advantage. Giving them a higher crit chance than the weaker char unbalances it quite a bit more.
Not just that, but making them unable to move for 8 hours, in my humble opinion, would make the whole system even more convoluted and awkward.
From where I'm standing (which I'm sure is totally different from where you see it), if these ideas were implemented, it would really provide very little, if any, benefit to the players.
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EchoMan
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Re: Combat - the Simple and Sweet version.

Postby EchoMan » Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:40 am

I Support #1 but not #2. Critical hits would totally randomize if characters lives or dies. A well protected character (say a king with 15 elite guards) could be killed instantly, which is way too powerful, and would make it easier to overthrow good run communities, and quickly decimate the number of skilled leaders in the Cantr world. There already are too few leaders in this universe in my opinion. That would be counterproductive to society-simulation.
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Dudel
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Re: Combat - the Simple and Sweet version.

Postby Dudel » Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:48 am

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17804

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17817

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17818

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17670

Pick one of these topics YOU CREATED and bump them rather then create more. Oi! :x

Or bump returners recent one.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18780

No need for a new topic, as these very choices/options/whatever have been suggested before.

The search function isn't broken... and these are topics you have made or posted in (As I searched for threads which you did post in).. so no excuses.
Cogliostro
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Re: Combat - the Simple and Sweet version.

Postby Cogliostro » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:08 am

Thanks and shouts go out to Dudel for providing many relevant background info links. This is a new post because it is a new way to look at the problem. In my mind, 1 and 2 cannot be separated. Otherwise the attackers are always heavily disadvantaged and have no chances against their enemy.

At the present time there is no such thing as a King with 15 elite guards and so on in the game. Anyone can be dragged away onto say a boat, and killed there, regardless of their position in society. So one can't say it'd be something new or unheard-of that established characters could easily die during attacks.

On the other hand, the pirates or evildoers who try to pull something like this off, can get away scathe-free under the current game rules. With the 8 hour delay it would not be so easy and at least a few of them may also die, due to defender action.

Combat becomes a) rife with 8 hour delays, giving people a better chance to both roleplay and login to control the character in trouble and b) frenzied and risky, now no one will want to hang around outside when powerful villains come knocking with crossbows and battleaxes. At the moment it's far too easy to "just take the hit" and go your merry way, always secure in the knowledge that the evil guy will not be able to kill you or your friend, no matter what weapon or skills he has. That's the nerf-land we all currently inhabit and "love", and I want to bring your attention that there was once and still is a much better land out there - actual dangerous and exciting combat.
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Dudel
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Re: Combat - the Simple and Sweet version.

Postby Dudel » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:51 am

Cogliostro wrote:Thanks and shouts go out to Dudel for providing many relevant background info links. This is a new post because it is a new way to look at the problem. In my mind, 1 and 2 cannot be separated. Otherwise the attackers are always heavily disadvantaged and have no chances against their enemy.


No, this is a duplicate thread and that is an excuse.

You could EASILY bump one of the other "loose suggestion" threads with your idea. :roll:


But, if you insist with this...

The eight hour delay is annoying on a very real and obvious scale. While Cantr is slow paced, having an either hour "hold" on an action until someone moves means people are simply sitting there for a quarter (more-or-less) of a day waiting to "move".

And if I've to say why, again, that crit hits are a bad idea... I think I'll be forced to hurt you. O.O

"Making killing easier" but at the same time "slowing it down" only over complicates and makes certain characters at risk to even leave the otherwise worthless buildings. Killing is plenty easy and combat/death is already days long... unless ganking.

What is NEEDED is a way to divert tactics... this does nothing of the sort... and, in fact, encourages the same tactics you see today to an irritating extent.

Rather then attack someone with my crit hit now and be stuck for eight hours for his "homies" to grab me... I'll just drag his arse somewhere and whoop on him there. At least with a crit rate killing him off doesn't take 2-3 days. :lol:

So the "grab and pop" or whatever you wanna call it, becomes MORE DEADLY while people who swing at the dude "dragging" have to wait eight hours to move otherwise? O.o


In short: Adds nothing while UNBALANCING combat.
returner
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Re: Combat - the Simple and Sweet version.

Postby returner » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:28 am

I actually agree with dudel on all his points.. To be honest, the current combat system is good in the sense it favours defenders and there's the 24 hour combat delay already in place. Leave it as is.

Generally there are two sides to the debate; those who have been affected by the current combat system, and those who effect others by their actions.

My personal opinion (and you can disagree or agree) is that Cantr is one big novel, and we are all the characters within it. Death can and will happen to all, and each death is just another story. That's why I'm generally not so disappointed when my characters die.. They're part of the evolving story and most characters/players can or will use their death to create further stories (and thus roleplay).

Again, I say we leave it alone. Alternatively, create a council of mature, intelligent, 'resource department'-like staff members to discuss and make an executive decision on the matter, along with other massive game-changing suggestions. Most importantly, these people can say once and for all that the suggestion is valid or invalid and appeals can be made if some disagree.
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catpurr
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Re: Combat - the Simple and Sweet version.

Postby catpurr » Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:25 pm

RUN! Yet another compat suggestion from Cogliostro!
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Re: Combat - the Simple and Sweet version.

Postby returner » Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:27 am

hahaha wtf!
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theguy
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Re: Combat - the Simple and Sweet version.

Postby theguy » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:31 am

returner wrote:Again, I say we leave it alone. Alternatively, create a council of mature, intelligent, 'resource department'-like staff members to discuss and make an executive decision on the matter, along with other massive game-changing suggestions. Most importantly, these people can say once and for all that the suggestion is valid or invalid and appeals can be made if some disagree.


1st, im against 1 shot kills always

and its called the GAB

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returner wrote: so I could probably make a Cantr III in my spare time :P

Well where is it?
returner
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Re: Combat - the Simple and Sweet version.

Postby returner » Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:06 am

theguy wrote:
returner wrote:Again, I say we leave it alone. Alternatively, create a council of mature, intelligent, 'resource department'-like staff members to discuss and make an executive decision on the matter, along with other massive game-changing suggestions. Most importantly, these people can say once and for all that the suggestion is valid or invalid and appeals can be made if some disagree.


1st, im against 1 shot kills always

and its called the GAB

Game Administration Board
This board is responsible for the daily overall administration of the game. All other councils and departments are responsible to this board. See for details the Cantr II Constitution.


I'm aware of the GAB and they do not do what I suggested so I don't see the point to your post? I suggested there needs to be a council of mature, intelligent, 'resource department'-like staff members to discuss and make an executive decision on the matter, along with other massive game-changing suggestions. Most importantly, these people can say once and for all that the suggestion is valid or invalid and appeals can be made if some disagree.

Ie, a group who are more active than GAB and, well, do what I described.. :roll:
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Piscator
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Re: Combat - the Simple and Sweet version.

Postby Piscator » Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:45 am

What exactly gives you the impression that the GAB isn't a council of mature, intelligent, RD-like staff members, capable of making executive decisions on matters of importance for the game?
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returner
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Re: Combat - the Simple and Sweet version.

Postby returner » Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:00 pm

Ie, a group who are more active than GAB and, well, do what I described.. :roll:

Damnit, stop making me copy/paste what I say.. :evil: :evil: :lol: :lol: :lol: :mrgreen:

edit: and don't take what I said out of context to make it look like I am paying GAB out.. I'm suggesting an additional group who can actively comb through the suggestions (perhaps a division of GAB) and say 'our decision is never to implement guns' so when another thread pops up about guns, (for example), we will know that they have definitely denied it.

This comes from a feeling that the GAB is limited in staff and stretched in their workload, perhaps a suggestions division which is a bit lower than GAB is needed.
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theguy
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Re: Combat - the Simple and Sweet version.

Postby theguy » Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:04 pm

Isnt that called moving threads to relevant sections i.e accepted, denied and then people searching before they open a new suggestion
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returner wrote: so I could probably make a Cantr III in my spare time :P

Well where is it?
returner
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Re: Combat - the Simple and Sweet version.

Postby returner » Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:33 pm

Heh, I guess.. My understanding of GAB was that they administrated EVERYTHING, and suggestions should be reviewed by resource-minded type people who can take the time to look at, say, implementing a gun and the effect it has, or implementing a new type of vehicle and the effect it has on the Cantr economy..

Dividing up the work load to make informed decisions. I am not saying they don't do that now, but I personally feel (and it's just an opinion) that everyone (players and GAB) would be better off if their workload was divided up among more people.

We have something like 5,000 players or characters (can't remember which), and that means we have a big pool of potential volunteers.....

All I'm saying is, let's put that to use, and make Cantr even better.
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