Coin Press (rklenseth's idea)

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Solfius
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Postby Solfius » Thu Oct 09, 2003 9:12 pm

and forging a plate by copying the original plate you can try to copy that number, but depending on how good a forgery it is not all of the jargon would be identical, if you have sharp eyes (and a coin inspection glass ;) ) you can spot the forgeries by the number
The Industriallist
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Postby The Industriallist » Fri Oct 10, 2003 12:35 am

I like the forgery "jargon". You shouldn't even know the jargon of a press until you had made a coin on it. Do you notice that a second legitimate press would also have a different code, so to identify forgeries you would have to know all of the legal codes... a big system would leak like a sieve :twisted:

What is the point of a "generic" press? Why not just use grams of the material instead?
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Postby Meh » Fri Oct 10, 2003 1:41 am

The Industriallist wrote:What is the point of a "generic" press? Why not just use grams of the material instead?


Well let's see...
We do use the grams of material today.
The point of one kind of generic press would be to create something that is light unlike jewery :P that can be carried. It's value would be the time put into making it. Thus unforgeable. The persian rug concept only much smaller and lighter.

Making coins that cost less to produce than thier value is a modern concept. The only reasons why older coins where minted was to guartee wieght and quality of the material. Since all charcters know that every resource is 100% real and know the weight down to the gram the only coin that is needed is a generic ones based on time to make.
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oddedd
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...

Postby oddedd » Fri Oct 10, 2003 12:00 pm

Making coins that cost less to produce than thier value is a modern concept. The only reasons why older coins where minted was to guartee wieght and quality of the material. Since all charcters know that every resource is 100% real and know the weight down to the gram the only coin that is needed is a generic ones based on time to make.


Yes and this is most easily seen in the brittish coin system as technicly a pound coin can be redeemed fo a pound of gold. And if you look at our notes, a five pound note for example it even says "the bank of england promises to pay the bearer the value of five pounds"
Well it used to anyway! Cant say Ive had my mits on on a note of money long enough to look at that recently!
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Postby The Industriallist » Thu Oct 16, 2003 3:20 am

The point of one kind of generic press would be to create something that is light unlike jewery that can be carried. It's value would be the time put into making it. Thus unforgeable.


But without any inherent value. The coin would weigh as much as the material that went into it and be of no more worth to the recipiant. Since there is no great difficulty in imitating them, no government would back them.

The persian rug concept only much smaller and lighter.


Except that people actually desired rugs in their own right. Something like how a few people havn't figured out that gold is worth exactly nothing in cantr. :P

all charcters know that every resource is 100% real and know the weight down to the gram


right... my original point

the only coin that is needed is a generic ones based on time to make.


I really don't see why spending time to produce something makes it valuable if no one in cantr has any actual use for it. Just because it took you 3 weeks to make something doesn't make it worth three weeks of labor. That is why I like the use of steel or coins that can be backed as currency. :?




Solfius, a problem. Coins from different presses couldn't stack togeter: they are different items, and if they did stack it would be impossible to distinguish forgeries. If they don't stack, you have a trivial way of distinguishing fakes. :(
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Postby rklenseth » Thu Oct 16, 2003 10:43 am

Well first of all resources will have to be worth something to the character. How do you think gold and silver became so valuable in the real world? It doesn't really have much use though there are a few things you can do industrially with gold and silver but other than that it is (or was) used in the money system because of it rarity in the real world. The same can be applied to Cantr life and everything you said above about value and the coins being worthless will have to be worked in by the characters, governments that exist, and so on. The gold and silver will have to become something valuable to the characters.

I think all the coins should stack but you can inspect all the coins and upon close inspection a person might be able to see the forged coins from he real coins. When a person finds forged coins they will be stacked seperataly and the person could ignore it and trade with it anyways or give these forged coins to some official or something.
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Solfius
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Postby Solfius » Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:09 pm

rklenseth wrote:I think all the coins should stack but you can inspect all the coins and upon close inspection a person might be able to see the forged coins from he real coins. When a person finds forged coins they will be stacked seperataly and the person could ignore it and trade with it anyways or give these forged coins to some official or something.


Yep, that's a way around it.

Of course, with generic presses they all produce the same kind of coin, so the way to control them is to find illegal presses before to much damage is done
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Postby Chrissy » Mon Oct 20, 2003 9:41 pm

I think the coin press has become a necessity.

Chrissy
west
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Postby west » Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:05 pm

I disagree...I think there's more important things to concentrate on first.
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Solfius
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Postby Solfius » Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:07 pm

how do you mean concentrate?
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watermelonnose
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Postby watermelonnose » Thu Oct 23, 2003 1:45 am

If you look at the history of the development of money you will see that gold and silver became the standard commodity to use as money because 1. they have a high value in relationship to other commodities, 2. their scarcity, 3. durability and 4. divisibility. Government was not needed to develop a money system it was a consequence of the market and the division of labor. Government's Involvement was to debase the money and thus rob the people.

Cantr's commodities are ideally suited to act as money. We are still however in the barter stage and need to be patient until a commodity or two emerge as the commodities of choice to hold for trading. When that happens we will have Cantr money.

I am not saying we shouldn't have coin presses but we hardly need them when our commodities are already divided into grams and introducing coins into Cantr in an artificial way will take some heavy RP to pull off and will misses the point of Cantr being a society building game.
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thingnumber2
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Postby thingnumber2 » Thu Oct 23, 2003 2:07 am

I have a character who's trying to take over all the gold supplies, and make that a currency for all of cantr...although people would have to come to my mint or whatever and trade resources for it...and I can't seem to get any help...
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JherodJ
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Postby JherodJ » Thu Oct 23, 2003 2:15 am

I`d have to say this idea while it works inRL do to a few reasons,wouldn`t do a single thing for Cantr.People will still want the useful materials
and rarity isnt an issue even if you only dig 5 grams of gold a day as an example(I don`t know havent seen it yet) It may seem rare but t isn`t
It`s always right there to always be tapped.Basically the only rarity in this game is meat.I`ve read once they go exstinct in an area they stay that way unless,more migrate.
Minting coins to stop grams from decaying or flying away is not an issue.
Also,There are a few oddball theories,I like on why Gold has always been an important commodity in RL,won`t go into that now.
Anways....The problem is in RL you can recycle these materials(melt them down) and get your base resource back,if you need a transistor or ring.;)
Once decay of things happens.Coins may be needed to transport these materials,much as illegal mints popped up in the western untied states during the various gold rushes,decay for coins and cantrian made objects,obviously would have much less decay,than most base resources (wood rots,iron rust etc.) But in conclusion theres no point or use for them.
I personally believe coins and paper money were made to for taxation purposes,You can`t in RL collect some of what everybody manufactures /grows.In cantr with every resource divisible to the gram,This is not an issue.
Basically it comes down to a couple programs that are the foundation of this game and they make certain things like coin presses,A total and complete waste of time,and as far as I can tell the standardized currency is steel.And will continue to be because much like the real world,Might makes right.money makes might here.Steel makes might in cantr.
Case closed.:)
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rklenseth
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Postby rklenseth » Thu Oct 23, 2003 2:31 am

To counter your argument, in the future, resources will run out. So there may be gold in one area one day but someone might dig it all up the next day. :wink: The same will go for anything that doesn't grow. So resources like iron and steel will be harder to come by. Plus, if you need the iron and steel for tools and weapons then how are you going to use it to barter with when it you run out?


So such a thing could be possible in the future. Right now there won't be. I believe coin presses are going to be added soon anyways unless what I have been told is wrong. I guess it just depends on who wants to use it. Just because it is added doesn't mean anyone can use it.

We should leave it up to the characters in Cantr to decide if they want to make money or not. As a player I think it would be cool to have a place or two have some sort of money system (like the Quii) so it isn't the same in every place. But it is really the decision of the characters as to what happens and not that of the players. :wink:
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Postby rklenseth » Thu Oct 23, 2003 2:33 am

You should read the topics "Ideas for building and tools and other stuff", "Resource Grade", and "Farming and Grid System".

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