Trains

[EchoMan]

Cantr islands parallell roads, winding roads, double roads, town-crossing roads, and lake-going roads kind of makes an exception though.

[Piscator]

Well, we still know definitely that a connection exists though. The problem here is basically that the actual course of the road is different from the displayed, direct route. The railroad would have to follow the winding route.

[Joshuamonkey]

Well, I'm stumped then. Taking out the ability to make new paths with railroads takes out the main point of having a train. My character would still make it though, and it'd still be cool of course. I still don't see why people shouldn't be able to make a new route to go around a town to get somewhere. In terms of disappearing, if there's going to be limits on how far apart two stations can be, what if, when a railroad is made, it works the same as a path (and possibly the path "beside" the railroad could be upgraded also for cars). That way, people could follow them and see them traveling and it wouldn't be like they teleported. It's not like all towns would end up being connected, because making railroads would be very difficult to do, plus it would still take a long time to travel. I mean, if such a thing were reasonable to program, wouldn't that be a good way to allow more character created freedom with land travel and a cool yet very difficult way to let characters change their environment a little for the better? We could even make it cost 100,000 grams of steel and wood for a long railroad, or something like that. In most cases that would mean towns would have to pool their resources together, in addition to making a station at each town.

[Mr. Black]

That's a brilliant idea, Joshua, and I'm so seconding. PLEASE implement this, I want trains.

[viktor]

Actually I'm pretty much against any system that doesn't follow paths. As far as Cantrians are concerned, the space between towns and roads does not exist. Using it to build railroad tracks would essentially be the same as sending the train through hyperspace.

To be more accurate, the important part is not the following existing paths, but crossing the towns between the start and target location. It should not be possible to teleport goods and people through enemy territory without them being able to intervene or even notice it.

Using existing paths would have the advantage though, that we wouldn't have to worry about pathfinding issues since we would know exactly if there is a connection between two points and how long it is (per definition).

this helps explain why i also prefer we build rails paralell to current roadsystems, town by town.
and also the reason i think the trains should be somewhat faster than regular cars is to compensate for the winding rails that go through every town.
it works both for in game convenience, as well as for staff calculating costs of materials per section of track.

[phoenixannwn]

Trains=want. But would we have bridges? Between islands?

[mojomuppet]

This is what my thoughts are about trains.

You shouldnt be able to attack the people in them or they the people in town. This would make them awesome and worth the effort for travel but at the same time have the disadvantage you cant kill off a town in your new awesome machine, unless you want to take the risk of stepping out. Perhaps you would have to get out or slip notes to communicate as well, or radio of course. Rail stations should be able to be locked like harbors, this only makes sense.

You can travel through towns that don't have rail stations but you cannot stop there same as a the big ships cant stop in harborless towns. This would give the town the option of wanting said trains to stop. But you can go to either side of that town and force a rail system through there. Possibly creating some interesting conflict or making new town agreements. Either way works.

Doing this is going to solve the massive hiding of steel and iron, trade is going to go crazy and towns with any resource to help this along should suddenly become insanely active.

Use some glass in these things at least for windows even though they would be closed. Give the sand soda towns a bit of the action. Make them hard as heck to make because a bus so far is way harder from a collection stand point at least how Im looking at it. Perhaps more engines would make them faster but use up more fuel. Of course the fuel injection system could fix this but they would be stuck with one kind of fuel. Or insane amounts of engines. Is my thinking cap on today or what? I cant shut up for some reason.

[phoenixannwn]

What, so they're like big, personal cars that have it's own road? That doesn't make sense.
It makes more sense that at a certain time, the train switches between towns or something. IDK. But not like a big car. that -wont- work.

[muidoido]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_engine

Double-heads and banking engines!

[berserk9779]

this helps explain why i also prefer we build rails paralell to current roadsystems, town by town.
and also the reason i think the trains should be somewhat faster than regular cars is to compensate for the winding rails that go through every town.
it works both for in game convenience, as well as for staff calculating costs of materials per section of track.

I think that rails and stations should be different projects. It could work like that:

Station A is built in Klojit, station B is built in Shortinazy. To connect the stations a player has to activate something in Station A and then walk (or other land travel) to Station B and operate the same there.
The actual rail project becomes then available and it should follow the path made by player getting from A to B.

The towns on the rail path could build stations to access the existing rail, having them participating and not just enjoying some other town's work.

It doesn't need a pathfinder, it is parallel to the current roadsystem and allows some kind of planning on the train network, not just chain building

[Sillysavage]

Here are some 'ideas' as to the types of locomotives that were used throughout the long history of the railroad.
Planet 2-2-0, Steam, 1829-1840, 25mph
Adler 2-2-2, Steam, 1835-1857, 31mph
Norris 4-2-0, Steam, 1837-1873, 35mph
Firefly 2-2-2, Steam, 1840-1870, 58mph! Woah boy!
Baldwin 0-6-0, Steam, 1845-1868, 40mph
Beuth 2-2-2, Steam, 1845-1870, 45mph
Crampton 4-2-0, Steam 1852-1889, 65mph!!!
American 4-4-0, Steam, 1855-1895, 45mph
Fairlie 0-6-6-0, Steam, 1862-1906, "Mountain King' 18mph
Consolidation 2-8-0, Steam, 1865-1912, 60mph, A timeless classic
Stirling 4-2-2, Steam 1870-1905, 75mph!!!
Duke Class 4-4-0, Steam 1874-1902, 50mph, Passenger elegance
Shay (2-truck), Steam, 1882-1930, Another Mountain King!

I'll switch to just the American versions now as there are just to many world versions to jot down.

Eight Wheeler 4-4-0, Steam, 1893-1927, 102mph!!! Meet the turn of the century...Fast and the Furious...
Camelback 0-6-0, Steam, 1896-1926, 60mph
2-D-2, Electric, 1904-1951, 70mph, The worlds first ELECTRIC Locomotive!
Atlantic 4-4-2, Steam, 1910-1948, 75mph
Pacific 4-6-2, Steam, 1914-1950, 95mph
H10 2-8-2, Steam, 1918-1950, 55mph This locomotive was used extensivley throughout WWII.
EP-2 Bi-Polar, Electric, 1919-1970, 70mph By far the longest service for this type of locomotive and the second attempt at using a purely electrical engine.
Northern 4-8-4, Steam, 1926-1966, 67mph
GG1,Electric, 1935-1985, 100mph
F3 (A&B), Diesel/Electric, 1940-1993, 85mph First attempt to combine the two together. They got it right on the first try!
Challenger 4-6-6-4, Steam, 1942-1983, 60mph No one thought they needed to build another locomotive again after this big boy was built!
Big Boy 4-8-8-4, Steam, 1945-1971, 75mph ALC just wanted to out-do themselves and came up with the locomotive to end all locomotives. They nearly succeeded!
GP7, Diesel, 1949-1993, 71mph
VL80T, Electric, 1967-present, 68mph
FP45, Diesel, 1968-1994, 103mph Fast but not alot of power to pull steep grades.
DD40AX, Diesel, 1969-1885, 83mph
E60CP, Electric, 1973-present, 85mph One of the few Electrics that can pull several cars without compromising power!
USA 103, Diesel, 1993-present, 103mph Chicago Zepher need I say more?
NA-90D, Diesel, 1998-present, 75mph Union Pacific & BNSF uses this locomotive extensively.

Two European Models:
Brenner E412, Electric, 1999-present, 140mph!!!
Trans-Euro, Electric, 2005-present, 191mph!!! Pretty fast...ah...really fast!

That's just a few of the locomotives that have been around since the begining. Perhaps this can help in determining how to set up your train implementation(s).

[Snickie]

Silly, I almost reported your post for spam, and then I saw who'd posted it, and that the information was actually relevant to the subject.
You can probably tell I'm not very educated when it comes to trains. ōô

When it comes to the implementation of tracks, I think a device like a sextant would be useful. You would initiate a rail project using the device in town A, then carry it to town B, and as long as the hypotenuse of it all does not go over water of any sort you would be allowed to confirm the project in town B and the rail-laying process would begin, creating a direct line between town A and town B.

Of course, unless some of you other ProgD geniuses can come up with a different way, this might mean the/a project reform that is otherwise irrelevant to this thread.

[DylPickle]

I like the idea of stations/terminals being the land equivalent to harbours.

I think the advantages of trains should be looked at first, so they can be implemented properly. Why would people use them over cars?

Pros:

-Direct transportation between preset locations (So that you can travel directly through places you don't intend on stopping at, making for a quicker journey)

-Limited to rail lines, so that leaders don't have to fear the faithfulness of their people. If you hire someone to make a run in a train, they won't be able to run off to the other side of the world quite as easily.

-Multiple locked cargo units (up to a maximum amount per engine). This allows for Miningtown to deliver things to TradingHubville a little more privately.


Costs:

-Tracks, however they are implemented, should have a rather steep cost in some combination of steel and timber. It might be an idea to add in some exotic things to up their value / give them a use somewhere.

-Trains should still require some form of fuel.

-Terminals/Stations should be required for the trains to actually stop at a location. I imagine they would cost something similar to harbours. Some variations could be used to suit different locations (why not have a brick terminal?)

-Engines would, of course, have some kind of high cost and could require some different resources from cars.

[phoenixannwn]

I support this heartily.
Edit: I mean Dyl's. I like Dyl's.

[Sillysavage]

The whole idea of trains was to get people from point A to point B simply because vehicles were'nt invented yet. The steam powered engine was just getting started. With that being said, there really isn't much of an advantage to having trains unless someone intends to haul a massive amount of cargo. Wether it be people and/or resources. But since most vehicles can already do most of this...and I have yet to a vehicle fully loaded with resources to where another vehicle was required to finish the job.
I think before material costs to build locomotives and the carriages should be discussed, there needs to be determined how rail lines will be implemented. Will there be grades? (elevation changes) That is what sand is used for. Keeps the wheels from slipping on the track. Length of track being built? How much water is taken on (for steam engines) before continuing to the next station. Number of cars being pulled? Again the use of water or diesel or eventually electricity being consumed to pull a certain tonnage. Which reminds me...for electric trains...locomotives that use electricity as thier power source, the track or rail wire needs to be 'electrified'.
As mentioned ealier, what about bridges or tressels? Or for that matter tunnels. How does one figure to make it to the other side of a mountain? Over it or through it. Will there be just single track or double track. Can one train move down the rails and not crash into another train coming from the opposite direction?