Problem swedes turkes

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SCUBA
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Problem swedes turkes

Postby SCUBA » Thu May 18, 2006 11:28 am

Hi!

I'm a bit curious about the thoughts among you about all the swedish newspawns in turkish island and on the turkish parts of the big mainland.

I have got more than 5 innecent newspawns slaughterd just after saying something in swedish.

Is this just some characters general hate of swedes or is it some kind of general strategy from some of you turkish players to eliminate all swedes in the part of the world that originally was only turkish? If so, its a bad CRB. But please tell me, and also please tell all swedes in the swedish forum.
/SCUBA

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yigit
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Postby yigit » Thu May 18, 2006 3:13 pm

Hello,

I don't think speaking for all would be appropriate, as everbody could
have opinions of their own. Here I'm going to tell how I see it:

First off, I don't think any Turkish player has the intention of
eliminating Swedes from a certain part of the Cantr map. It's a game
after all. :) We know each other a little from the forums, and the
others are nice guys and girls too :), everybody would like to play on
a more lively, multi-cultural map. The problem is completely IC. Some
of my characters have joined in with the slaughtering of the swedes.
They all had their reasons.

Some of my characters, since they spawned, have been living in a very
tense atmosphere. They have been told that the Swedes around are
thieves and murderers. They are told that the good times will come
when all the Swedes are gone. They have no reason and no means to
believe otherwise.

Some of my characters did ask if peace between the two sides were
possible, but they were told there were people who tried to negotiate
but failed. They were told about the first Swedes who came by ship,
that they were real nice people, and how then the evil ones spawned,
and how now all of them behave dangerously.

One of my characters was attacked by a man shouting "Du ar turk!!
Dööö!!" with no apparent reason. She doesn't know what it means (I've
looked it up myself:)), but she thinks it's rather frightening, and
she's prepared to keep her distance with people speaking in a similar
fashion.

Anyway, summing up, this reason or that, there's a big buildup of
hostility among the Hgorians agains the Swedes, and it's like an
avalanche, with nobody trying to stop it, it's just growing by itself.

I, as a player of Cantr, don't like the situation, and very much would
prefer a rp environment where each of my characters wouldn't have to
grow a semi-militarist personality. I think it needs time. Time, and
characters that are willing to put in some effort. I think more than half of
my characters could, if they saw a light.

yigit
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Yoldash
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Postby Yoldash » Thu May 18, 2006 5:35 pm

Hi,

I’m a bit curious about the thoughts of the early Swedish players having characters in Turkish language group geographical game area and their acts, too. What were they thinking while taking their offensive actions …

I have got more than 5 innecent newspawns slaughterd just after saying something in swedish.

A little detail, actually they have been killed for not saying something Swedish, rather not speaking Turkish, mentioning they are foreigners.

Is this just some characters general hate of swedes

No its not a general hate of Swedes, why should we hate Swedes? Personally, I even have respect and sympathy for the Scandinavian cultures. We even talk of the groups in game rp as “Hgorians and Svensk” not “Turks and Swedens” as you.


It’s a game, and we are not teenagers, and count it in “game” norms. Yet, the game is a part of our lives, we spend several hours for it everyday, and its not a good thing to see your efforts are been wasted by someone (doesn’t matter from which ethnic background). Thus, of course it results in some emotion. Still, every one of us is connecting it to players not a race or nation.


some of you turkish players to eliminate all swedes in the part of the world that originally was only turkish? If so, its a bad CRB

I would like to hear what you think it’s a bad CRB indeed. I may say that... its normal, its real world history, its nature of the mankind, it’s a response to Swedish acts.

If you analyse any culture in the history you can easily see that, every system tries to protect itself... and in the position of cantr time period, its actually abnormal for different groups to live together, especially without a common language. Up to 20. century you can not see any example of it in real history, too.

There’s a land part, there are natives on it, foreigners come... it was a problematic situation always. The dialogues are on the edge of a blade. On any assault or provocation, it will result in tradegy, since it may be the point of existance or elemination of one of the groups. I am talking of the English and the Zulus, Spanish and the Incas/Aztechs, Europeans and American Indians, Holland and the Japanese, Rome and the Galia, etc… its not a bad CRB, its usual.

For our case…

Let me explain the situation once again, since there may be new players don’t know the Hgorian history, thus evaluate this situation wrongly with a quick and emotional response.

We are a community of a small group, a new language group in cantr, living peacefully on an island. Since it was based on an small island, there was quite harmony, no need for any aggression or any other thing, because there’s nowhere to run or something to fight.

It all starts with a longboat arriving to Hgorian (Turkish region) shores, with two crews. First we welcomed each other, and acted together. Then characters of the Swedish players start to spawn there. I have to mention that hospitality has great importance in our culture, so I tried to act that way with helping food, tools, etc.

Later because of the language barrier, two side starts to talk only to themselves. Thus polarisation has started. Upon that time we were a new language group and trying to develop. Even not have iron for locks. Our numbers were so few, too, even at a time, The number of Swedish characters on the island approached to our number.

Then the stealing, attacking and hunting of Sweden characters begun. Since we live on a small island, animal population was so low and hunting was banned, waiting for them to reproduce (was a technical problem always, never hunted). But Swedes killed the entire animal population on half of the island. One of the characters, that I personally helped him to built a boat, came to our city and stole our ship, with all the town supplies (still pirating other cities). Another city had been raided several times. It continued like this way for 6 months (real time).

I tried to get in contact and warn about our upsets. But nobody showed interest to my approaches. And slipped from the subject saying “It’s an act of a character, not everyone of us is thieves”. Yes, it’s true. But, if 5 of 10 foreigners steal something from a character, that character will generalise it.

I personally tried to talk with several characters, warning about the possible end, suggested to form among you a management, thus we can have diplomatic relations. Again, no response came. And that anarchic behaviour was damaging us.

Of course, after several conflicts, we started to depend on locks, still couldn’t find a solution to the problem. At that time, Swedish characters boarded a ship, dragged and imprisoned its captain, and stole a ship again. At that point, it passed the thin red line. We arrived and killed the involvers. So, the arrow was fired from the bow... the agression began.

And now…

Yes, I don’t want any invader on my home. Since it threaten me. The USA, Sweden, UK does the same too; wants visa and have border guards. Also, the cantr culture is not even as modern as these countries. They are a group with axes and swords, eating harvest food, having simple lives and simple thoughts. It’s quite simple. Eye for an eye. For them, foreigners are thieves and attackers... so not allowed in or land. They are warned, if they still stay there they would be attacked. Simple.

Its not a hate, for example we may with trade each other peacefully. But for new spawns, we have our experience... Its not an assault, I even see it as self-protection. We don’t have ships trying to invade Svensk mainland, and don’t want to be invaded, too. I am not following the immigrants to south to genocide them. Don’t have assault soldiers on the field. Just try to protect my region. Actually tired of the conflict and the uneasiness we live for several months. I like to live in a town, that I know everyone, whom I can talk with, who knows the rules, and obey them, etc. So I am acting in a way that every patriot acts. Trying to build a peaceful place for myself and my friends, in the place that you said as the part of the world that -- originally -- was only Turkish.

in cantr of course.. in the game only.

For Swedish players…

As I see from the tactics, and the acts of several characters, most of you are very experienced players. Yes, it may be ugly for you to be killed by someone, but please try to have some empathy. We got our share of reasons for that. If our intention was different, we would kill the first two boat crew, when they arrived.

If you are still accusing me, I don’t have anything else to say, since I see it’s very clear from my point of view. I have tried to avoid this final situation, tried to contact, tried to warn about it. Thus, I have my hands clean on the subject. We all know that there are innocent players upon process... but they have to accuse those thieves, not us. We are not the ones that triggered the conflict, just played our part, which is so obvious to guess.
Yoldaş G. ILGAR
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<i>Knowledge is burden..</i>
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SCUBA
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Postby SCUBA » Fri May 19, 2006 4:49 am

Yoldash, big thanks for your answer! :-)

I thou think you didnt understand the differens I used in character and player. I asked if some characters hated "svenskar". Character mean the individual, at most 15, you can have as a player. The CRB thing is, if someone as a player act all his characters, or many of them, in the same goal, and without the individual character to have any personal kwnolage or motive to do so.

Another question, does there still live "svenskar" on the hgorian island or are they all dead now?
/SCUBA



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Postby Yoldash » Fri May 19, 2006 12:02 pm

You are welcomed Scuba.. and, no, I believe we understand each other :wink: .

For your question, yes there are characters that hate Svenskar, since they have bad backgroud with them. Some still pity them, some tries be out of the ongoing. My own characters even have different view of the topic, due to rp background and their characteristic features, since some of them had friends among Svenskar. But in general I may say that, noone loves them anymore.. Old ones are angry because they found ungrateful behavious in return to their approaches, and the young ones grow up hearing bad things about strangers in doctrine.

The pirate Onsalar had raided all the seatowns, 3 major cities have been sabotaged, wasting several resources, 4 ships stolen.. and in return we killed several Svenskar. I believe both side must be hating each other indeed.

CRB.. its a result. Its not a personal effort, its a diplomatic one. Its not players characters acting together, its players acting together. If a nation goes to war, all the citizens go, too. And its what have happened, since all the region was getting effected from the situation. But believe me we argued about it for three months in deciding. And the word send with messengers to the locations in time. If you were able to follow via characters, you could see that, even different cities had different reactions to war messages and reacted with alternative behaviours. Also, they did not use aggression at the same time (if they even used it).

For live "Svenskar" :) .. I don't know. Since its impossible to differ a hiding spy and a rookie newspawn. But soldiers are looking for them :twisted:

And for the killed Svenskar newspawns, I wish them a happy, reancarnated life in another land zone :lol:
Yoldaş G. ILGAR

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<i>Knowledge is burden..</i>
chrlid76
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Postby chrlid76 » Fri May 19, 2006 12:21 pm

I can say that it's not only Swedish <B>newspawns</B> that have been attacked. One of my characters, who obviously is NOT a newspawn (way too old for that) was dragged inside a locked building and attacked by five different persons, entering, striking, and then immediately leaving. This without a warning or a question who my characted was. All he did was standing harvesting carrots...
Frejan
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Postby Frejan » Fri May 19, 2006 12:34 pm

As a player understand why. But my character does not...
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Gyrus
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Postby Gyrus » Fri May 19, 2006 4:56 pm

Yes there is a problem on the "hgorian island". But the problem is not between TURKS and SWEDES. The problem is between "Hgorian people" and "newcomers" who can not talk their language.

And I personally believe that we players do not make CRB. Because this is not because of a pure hatred. This is only war. And If you defend your land you go war by all your people. Your men, women and children come together and act together.

If we track back the histor, the story is something like this: First there were newcomers, and hgorian people act friendly towards them but later their numbers grow and they start to act either as a thief or attack innocent people around. And hgorian people started to pinpoint them. Later some rumors start on the island. They were saying that, newcomers are killers and thieves. And innocent newcomers could not defend themselves, and after the first murders; things got worse for both sides.

But not all Hgorian attack newcomers. I want to remind chrild76 that his 50 year old charecter saved by a hgorian. And set free. They even allowed him to leave the island and go back to his home. :wink: .It was not hard for those people to kill that man! Right?

chrlid76 wrote:I can say that it's not only Swedish <B>newspawns</B> that have been attacked. One of my characters, who obviously is NOT a newspawn (way too old for that) was dragged inside a locked building and attacked by five different persons, entering, striking, and then immediately leaving. This without a warning or a question who my characted was. All he did was standing harvesting carrots...



But I do not believe that our conversation will solve something. Because there are two cultures who can not communicate. And if you can not talk and if you can not control all, there will always be problems. This will always end with a war. In history, no one loose a war on his own land. So I bet on Hgorian people :wink: And I wish a good life for Swedes on their own island or on the southern part of the mainland.
(GyRuS)
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Liljum
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Postby Liljum » Sat May 20, 2006 8:02 am

My last char on the small island saw the most ugly thing... The soldiers where killing everyone that wasen't 30+. Even turkish people.

So... I have seen that this isen't just a hate against swedes, but a hate against all newspawns.

But that char has even seen som possible CRB. He lived in peace with the turkish people and suddenly one turkish soldier came and without any words said, he attacked my char and his turkish female friend. And leaving everyone else alone even if they where newspawns too. So how could that soldier know that he was a swedish char? And not any of the other newspawns?
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Yoldash
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Postby Yoldash » Sat May 20, 2006 1:28 pm

Its quite simple..

(1) In general..

If you read the above texts in detail.. its not about newspawns or Svensk, etc.. its about people who doesn't talk Hgorain!

If you are not in communication with the natives , that means you are stranger.. and if a character does not talk, or responds to questions I suspect of them as not "Hgorian". Since if they are not communicating, that means they will not understand us, know our customs, rules and traditions, so will not obey them.

(2) For your example.. there are dire situations, when its hard to distingush a rookie newspawn and a hiding foreigner.

First, its quite a common thing in Cantr to greet the people around and mention your name.

Second, there's a special condition in our region and we demand it specially.

Third, currently if I wait long enough to respond, meanwhile new characters spawn or the currents sabotage resources.

Thus, you may choose not to risk the situation. Not everyone of us are terrorist, but they check everyone in the airport.

(3) If you generalize your experience to facts as you see them, it will be a mistake. Especially in a situation like this when you have so few information and understanding of whats going on.
Yoldaş G. ILGAR

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<i>Knowledge is burden..</i>
Volehunter1
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A few thoughts

Postby Volehunter1 » Sun May 21, 2006 9:58 am

One of my character were told that Swedes and Turks (Hgorians) could live together at the mainland, but not on the Island. He prepared (food etc) for leaving the island and travelled there. It was fine in the start but at a certain time people seemed to be more hostile (without saying anything to the swedes about it) and my character left with a few others to another place were the people there also were friedly. Then at one point a boat came and all swedes (only swedes) were killed a few hours later without any swede saying anything or anyone pointing at the swedes. This character had tried (and at least partly succeded) to communicate with people at all places he visited, and become friends with a few of the turkish people.
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What happend with swedes and turks living together on the mainland?

One of my character once got a OOC message saying that the conflict had been roleplayed by the turks and I appreciated that you let me know that.

I might suspect that some turkish characters have tried to speak turkish to
the swedish characters without getting answers beacause the swedes didnt realise that it was directed to them. If you want to communicate with swedes try to mix in some swedish words from lexicon or speak one-one with that character.

Sorry about calling you turks instead of hgorians, but noone have tried to tell my characters that you do want to be called Hgorians. The 3 swedish islands havent had a commonly known name until lately (and still i dont think those names are accepted/known by all swedish characters) thats why we have called ourselves swedes.

To me the killing of my character seemed like a rule breach. (Many characters doing something simultanious without knowledge of what was going on at that place).[/u]
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Postby SCUBA » Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:20 am

The war continues!
/SCUBA



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Postby cantrlady » Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:15 am

I really don't think a discussion on this should continue as it is being played out right now - even 4 days will be not be sufficient. I would find it very hard for someone to even hold a discussion on it without bringing up a current event in game which is a breach.

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