Easier Letter Authentication

Out-of-character discussion forum for players of Cantr II to discuss new ideas for the development of the Cantr II game.

Moderators: Players Department, Public Relations Department, Players Department Trainee, Development Monitor, Resources Department, Programming Department

User avatar
RocMat1
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:57 am
Location: U.S.A, Alabama
Contact:

Easier Letter Authentication

Postby RocMat1 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:27 pm

FIRST AND EASY SUGGESTION THAT I THINK CAN BE IMPLEMENTED ALMOST IMMEDIATLY:
Seals are way too timely.
I should be able to just sign a letter and the letter will say signed by:
and if they know the person it will pull up the name they put it.

75 grams of wood
120 grams of iron
25 grams of nickel and four days of work is WAY too much to authenticate ONE letter!

HERE IS MY CHARACTERS PROBLEM:

My character is trying to start a bank with a cheque system where you can deposit your items or resources into the bank,
and then the bank writes a check for the customer that he or she can give to someone far away without having to carry all the resources. How can people just trust a piece of paper? It is hard enough to get people to trust a start up bank WITHOUT this problem!


And it still leaves pretty of room for roleplay while Im growing. People will write all sorts of notes saying: Oh this is the banks signature. Also eventually when I want the bank to grow I will need more people to sign.

SECOND AND HARDER BUT WAY COOLER SUGGESTION:
Ok listen to this also: How about you create a seal maker(think stamp). Give the seal maker a unique ID number like 158 or 2788. Letters with seals CANNOT be copied. And there are only three ways to create this seal: 1. You have the original seal maker 2. You can make a copy of the seal maker in if you have it in your possession(like a key) 3. You can attempt by just seeing the seal to make an identical seal maker but you must have the letter in your possesion and this will double the time of normal to make it. You could choose the complexity of you seal maker which would determine the time for an average forger:
THESE ARE THE TIMES AND SUCCESS FOR A FORGER.FOR THE ORIGINAL IT IS HALF THIS TIME AND 100% SUCCESS RATE, SAME RES)
*very easy seal maker 50 grams of wood time to copy:8 days chance of success: 50%

*easy 50 grams of wood 10 grams of iron time to copy: 10 days chance of success: 40%

*medium 100 grams of wood 25 grams of iron 25 grams of nickel ::: 16 days 30%

*hard 150 grams of wood 50 grams of iron 50 grams of nickel 50 grams of oil 20 days 20%

*very hard 200 wood 100 iron 100 nickel 100 oil 100 charcoal 30 days 10%

*ultimate 250 wood 125 iron 125 nickel 150 oil 150 charcoal 50 grams stone 50 grams gold 50 grams silver 50 days 5%

Seals will be like people in that when you see it it will say UNKNOWN SEAL until you type in a different name for it.

You can also keep the certain requirements for a seal but it will be called a HAND MADE SEAL. It will also be recognized as if it is a person. Hand made seals can be forged but the letter must be in possession and it takes 30 days compared to four for only one letter and only a 1% chance of success at the end of the project.I suggest also that a letter can have multiple seals. Then Hand made seals could be used as both a startup seal to be officially recognized by along with your seal maker seal, and then later as an emergency seal in case you learned that one of your seal makers had been forged. The only person that can make that particular unique seal is the original maker and those that original maker gives the ability to. Hand made seals are therefore extremely secure in the fact that they are hard to forge, and even if they are forged it is only one letter, as opposed to if a seal maker is forged they can send out unlimited letters.

This would be perfect. I could make my seal maker. I could seal checks. I could copy it and give it to other bank managers. People could start memorizing the seal so they knew it was my banks seal. And it would leave room for roleplay of people trying to forge it. Which eventually would happen so I might just have to make a new seal but thats ok, that brings life into the game.

It also would allow all sorts of governments and organizations to have authentic messages. It allows for a huge amount of roleplay because certain levels of seal makers could be given to certain ranks, with only the very top people with knowledge of the hand made seal. But even then if there is a huge group against that government they could still forge even hand made seals if they worked together. It could create citizenship procceses so that they are shown a seal once so that they can know it but must immediately give the letter back so the seal cannot be forged. Rebels to the government could try to steal the seals so they could forge them. All sorts of neat things.

EXAMPLE ROLEPLAY OF EXTREMELY SECURE MULTI CITY GOVERNMENT TO GET EXCITED ABOUT:
A government with citizens, police, mayors, governors, presidents cabinet, and president.
Citizens would see the hand made seal for laws and would see the medium security seal as part of citizenship but would not get to keep the letter. Each citizen would also get to see each leader's hand made seal (mayor and above) so if an emergency order came down they could know it was true. After an emergency order the leader changes his hand made seal. Each citizen would be required to learn the new seal. There would be jobs for people to be recording all of these things.

All the police might be given one single hand made seal to give for laws (since they would be constantly posted this would give them less of a chance of being forged). They would have a medium security seal maker for guidelines for quick posts of official documents for citizens. They might have a seperate medium security seal maker to talk to other police in other cities. Police would send a messenger to send a message to other police. In all other cases, such as mayors sending a letter to another mayor, police plays as messengers.

The mayors might be given a hard seal maker to give orders to police in other cities and another hard seal maker to talk directly to the mayors in other cities.
If mayors found that the law hand made seals in their city have been compromised, they would send down an emergency order with their hand made seal and in the same letter the new law hand made seal to the police which would post that to the citizens. The mayor would them make himself a new hand made seal which the citizens would have to memorize.

The governors might have an ultimate seal maker to give orders to the mayors in other cities and another separate ultimate seal maker to authorize letters to other governors. If there was a need for every citizen to evacuate, go to war, or build something, or his seal maker was compromised the governor could send down an emergency order with his hand made seal.

The presidents cabinet all would have the ability to make a certain hand made seal to give orders to the governors, another certain hand made seal to give letter amongst themselves. The would be the only ones the see the president's hand made seal, but would have to give it back to him immediately after memorizing it.
The president would have his own hand made seal for the gravest of emergencies that he would send down through his cabinet.


There would be jobs of people processing new citizens, mantaining seal memorization after emergency orders, and messengers of letters.All Citizens would have to memorize the law hand made seal, their mayor hand made seal, their governor hand made seal, and the president's hand made seal.
<a><img></a>
User avatar
Henkie
Posts: 1689
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:36 pm

Re: Easier Letter Authentication

Postby Henkie » Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:59 pm

Dang... Lovely!
User avatar
RocMat1
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:57 am
Location: U.S.A, Alabama
Contact:

Re: Easier Letter Authentication

Postby RocMat1 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:26 pm

Really the possibilities are endless:
A mail service using just a very easy seal maker just to say this letter was delivered by our mail service

Governments, teams issuing official papers, citizenship, Proof of anything ect.. probably using either a ultimate seal maker or hand made seal

give a certain security clearance to someone by giving them a certified paper.

Military IDs, Police IDs, graduated police school, ect...

making someone an important official is as easy as giving them the seal maker.

Used by any organization that grades qualities of maps, anything in letters .... probably would use a medium seal maker

Bank wanting to certify checks that it has written out... probably a ultimate seal maker

Certifying awards, approval of something,

certify reciepts, IOUs, from an orginization

create certified health insurance programs

certify individuals as soldiers, builders, ect.

create certified high school or college diplomas.

While also leaving room for mischief. all someone has to do is steal an ultimate seal maker and then they could make unlimited "official" documents. Or by getting a big team together even a hand made seal you could eventually make a falsified citizenship paper.

THE BEST PART is the clash between the two.
As governments get more strict on who they show seals to, the rebels wont be able to resist stealing them, which will lead to both on a war getting better equipment, then the government will think of other ways as well...such as keeping records in their buildings, which then the rebels will break in and still them and get a fake identity. Which will lead to mass confusion, which will lead to more protocols. ect ect ect

and just to make sure everyone knows what im talking about, they are not really seals, they are more like stamps without the ink... you don't break the seal... and once you have the seal maker it is unlimited you dont use anymore resources to make more seals of that seal maker ID...if you are confused at all let me know because I want this to get implemeted right.

I know it is a bit of work in the programming but it will be worth it
<a><img></a>
User avatar
Greek
Programming Dept. Member/Translator-Polish
Posts: 4541
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:41 pm
Location: Kraków, Poland
Contact:

Re: Easier Letter Authentication

Postby Greek » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:58 pm

Do you know current seal system or just try to write as much as possible?

Seal system is one of quite well developed things in Cantr, but not used because of lack of characters' interest.

75 grams of wood
120 grams of iron
25 grams of nickel and four days of work is WAY too much to authenticate ONE letter!

Huh?

4 days to create a seal isn't much considering it's one-time-project. Of course, then sealing wax is needed to seal the note, but free sealing would mean seal spam.

Ok listen to this also: How about you create a seal maker(think stamp).

What's new with that? We already have it. It's called seal. (funny, isn't it? :P)

Letters with seals CANNOT be copied.

Why? It can be copied now, but copy isn't sealed. It's good, because it would be still possible to copypaste content of the note. Current system (sealed note is set as non editable) is good.

I don't like forging part of the suggestion, but maybe after some discussion it could be converted into good idea.

It will also be recognized as if it is a person.

Why? Seals have their unique names, so we can expect that they have their name written somethere on the seal.

This would be perfect. I could make my seal maker. I could seal checks. I could copy it and give it to other bank managers.

We have it in the game. Why are you not using it?

Thanks for suggestion, but I think you just don't know current game mechanics.


Good idea is to extend possibility of sealing notes to sealing envelopes (instead of old broken envelope seal system).

---

I have also some more suggestions to make the system better, maybe no need to create a new topic.

1. Possibility of sealing the seal (sounds even funnier) - I mean a project, whose effect would make seal impossible to be copied. Now when we give a seal even for few days (i.e. we are city leader and we give a seal to our representative. If we then fire him and demand return of the seal we can't be sure if he didn't just copy it as many times as he wanted. So our seal is probably useless. Same situation is with keys - somebody picks up key and 10 minutes later returns it but it's possible that he started 100 copy key projects on his ship.
2. Make possible to copy seal [and key] (proceed with the copying project) when we have an original seal [or key] in our inventory. It sounds reliably, because we should see what we are copying. And would make harder to copy a seal which was dropped by dying official. Now it is possible to pick it up, enter your own building/vehicle, start the copying project and give it to the town leader.
‘Never! Run before you walk! Fly before you crawl! Keep moving forward! You think we should try to get a decent mail service in the city. I think we should try to send letters anywhere in the world! Because if we fail, I’d rather fail really hugely’
User avatar
RocMat1
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:57 am
Location: U.S.A, Alabama
Contact:

Re: Easier Letter Authentication

Postby RocMat1 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:41 pm

PROBLEMS WITH CURRENT SEAL MECHANIC:
NOT REUSABLE- I think this mechanic would become A TON more popular just by changing this one thing I dont think you understand I want "Seal Makers".
You make it once and then you can stamp as many documents as you want with that particular stamp. People can then recognize that stamp the be anything...
"Government" ect... It makes the mechanic unpopular by requiring the wax. Like I said, it is just like a signature, it should be a right. GET RID OF THE WAX THAT WOULD BE A HUGE THING. If they just got ride of the wax and lowered the requirements.

INDIVIDUAL- THIS IS A BIG ONE! Seals are for individuals. If you want to have an organization where multiple people have authority, different levels, ect,
the current Seal system cannot handle that. A Government cant certify, multiple people, not just one authority, under my system.


NEEDS TWO SIDES- the forging mechanic is just really cool. Nobody wants the game to get too predictable because it just doesn't seem real. people forge documents and identities all the time irl.


CANT BE COPIED: They cant be copied because that breaks the forging mechanic. To forge a seal you must have that sealed letter. By making it where you cant copy it you can hand it to somoeone just so they can memorize it, and if they give it back to you you know they dont have a copy that they can use to forge. Plus it doesnt make sense. If you just copied it then you can copy a seal. It breaks away from the realism.

NOT ENOUGH VARIETY- I give lower and high quality "seals". The materials needed are not immediately available. I think a certification should
be a given right...just a bit more than a signature...people can see my handwriting and know its me


and this is all if im understanding it right. But let me ask you this:
You make the seal, can you copy that exact seal so that if someone recognizes that seal they will recognize the other?

FROM CANTR WIKI: ed for sealing notes and envelopes with sealing wax. The name of the character who made the seal will be on the sealed envelope.

I dont want the name of the character on the note. I want a seal to be almost its own entity, it is an attachment to the note. It is its own recognizable, memorizable thing. Just like I can type in the name of a person and my char remembers.
<a><img></a>
User avatar
Doug R.
Posts: 14856
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:56 pm
Contact:

Re: Easier Letter Authentication

Postby Doug R. » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:39 am

Greek wrote:Seal system is one of quite well developed things in Cantr, but not used because of lack of characters' interest.

Come again? My characters would love to use seals, except the sealing wax is freaking impossible to come by in the English zone.
Hamsters is nice. ~Kaylee, Firefly
User avatar
Addicted
Posts: 958
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:42 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Easier Letter Authentication

Postby Addicted » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:47 am

Agreed. I did like the notes we could 'sign'. Not one of mine has sealing wax and only two have seen it in game, both by Polish players!
User avatar
NostalgicMelody7
Posts: 607
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:54 am
Skype: ph0enixflame13

Re: Easier Letter Authentication

Postby NostalgicMelody7 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:50 am

Doug R. wrote:Come again? My characters would love to use seals, except the sealing wax is freaking impossible to come by in the English zone.


Why is it hard to come by?
User avatar
Doug R.
Posts: 14856
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:56 pm
Contact:

Re: Easier Letter Authentication

Postby Doug R. » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:08 am

Because you need oil AND beeswax AND resin. Beeswax, as far as I'm aware, can only be found in one location in the entire Treefeather/Cantr/Teregotha island complex. Resin is in maybe 2-3 locations on Cantr, but I don't know if it's on Treefeather at all. Oil is more common, but it's typically in the middle of nowhere, so it's not something that traders have when they come to your town. If you want it, you need to go get it yourself.

Essentially, if you live in this area, having sealing wax would be akin to a high-end luxury item, even more expensive than rigging for a ship.
Hamsters is nice. ~Kaylee, Firefly
User avatar
Snickie
Wiki/Forum Mod./Translator-English (PR)
Posts: 4911
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:28 pm
Location: FL
Contact:

Re: Easier Letter Authentication

Postby Snickie » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:53 am

Most of my characters have never seen beeswax except for those who were lucky enough to spawn in towns where there was already a beehive. I don't think ANY of my characters have seen bitumen, but one might have it in the storage of their town, but I doubt much.

On the other hand, one of my older character lives in an area with natural resin resource. That character also knows a place nearby with beeswax, and we have trade with an oil resource. This is my character who lives in a semi-urban place in the middle of nowhere, though, so what use would they have for it?


As for stamps, I like the idea, except that I imagine stamps with rubber (which I don't have) and ink (which doesn't exist on Cantr) and wood, but I know there are other ways to make stamps; I'm thinking of the artsy-fartsy stamps. Making a stamp from the build menu would generate a new stamp with a new ID (design or logo, if you will) and copying an existing stamp would be exactly like copying keys. Could we label stamps too?

Once they're on the note/envelope, how would we view them in the inventory and objects pages? Would they have a blue thing underneath the title on them like building signs do, one line for each stamp ID?

Return to “Suggestions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest