Change in tiredness

Out-of-character discussion forum for players of Cantr II to discuss new ideas for the development of the Cantr II game.

Moderators: Public Relations Department, Players Department, Players Department Trainee, Development Monitor, Resources Department, Programming Department

Yang
Posts: 383
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:07 pm

Re: Change in tiredness

Postby Yang » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:01 pm

Vega wrote:The most important thing I found against this idea (and the only one by now, I'm not thinking so much today) is that you can't leave and survive. I mean... You must leave the game for a short/medium period of time, as in holydays, maybe for a month. You put your account on leave and you put your char gathering food to not starve. Fine. You return after all that time and you found your char alive (if animals or people didn't kill him/her, okay.) If you implement this and people need to rest, you'll can't do this and you are going to depend of other people to feed you always and that sometimes doesn't work... :?

I think that, if you implement this at any way, people should be able of do anything else even at 100% of tiredness.

Thats why there should be barrier, to what level of tiredness can work bring you. 100% is way to much, but 50-70% is good enough to slow you down, but dont stop you at all.

As for survival, making place to rest its not hard. Just make Fur rug or Cod and you have nice place to sleep and get some good rest. Also tiredness dont need make huge difference in dependence of your skill. For example 2%/h if you are Expertly 5%/h if you Awkwardly. Other just calculated in middle. This way you still can do a lot of things before you are too tired, but if you would go rest some time then you would do much more.

This change can wait as long as needed, but it would be good for RP. Those characters are not a robots, who work always at 100%, if they are not bothered. Let them live their life and let us take care of them.
User avatar
Chris
Posts: 822
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 1:03 pm

Re: Change in tiredness

Postby Chris » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:28 pm

Don't "fix" what isn't broken. Introducing more complexity demands more micromanagement on the part of players. That's not fun. Game play trumps realism.
User avatar
Vega
Posts: 2191
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:39 am
Location: Lejos. Far away.
Contact:

Re: Change in tiredness

Postby Vega » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:29 pm

But if you are on leave and you can't log in, we'll say, a month, how are you going to use that rug, Yang? It's what I'm talking about.
Quebec Lima Delta November
Something like a story
User avatar
Chroma Key
Translator-Turkish (PR)
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:40 pm

Re: Change in tiredness

Postby Chroma Key » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:47 pm

Chris wrote:Don't "fix" what isn't broken. Introducing more complexity demands more micromanagement on the part of players. That's not fun. Game play trumps realism.

+1

Also, @psychowico - Those chars do NOT have a fair chance to survive in the first place, making things yet harder really leaves no incentive to play chars in those areas.
On a different note, it took my char 35+ years to make his car (including about 30 year long journey to get something simple as wood, and other basic stuff; had he not found an abandoned town with some resources, I don't believe he would have made it). That's 2 years of my life. Is that long enough?
"She could make something sound stupid just by hearing it.”
"For a short moment there, you almost sounded human."
User avatar
psychowico
Posts: 1732
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:57 am
Contact:

Re: Change in tiredness

Postby psychowico » Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:05 pm

Don't "fix" what isn't broken. Introducing more complexity demands more micromanagement on the part of players. That's not fun. Game play trumps realism.

Suggestion forum isn't for fix only.

On a different note, it took my char 35+ years to make his car (including about 30 year long journey to get something simple as wood, and other basic stuff; had he not found an abandoned town with some resources, I don't believe he would have made it). That's 2 years of my life. Is that long enough?

I see that we looking on Cantr in diffrent ways. I do not think even that all the characters should have possibility to achieve everything. Like in life. But I respect you opinion.
"Please give us a simple answer, so that we don't have to think, because if we think, we might find answers that don't fit the way we want the world to be."

https://www.kinkykitty.pl
User avatar
the_antisocial_hermit
Posts: 3675
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 4:04 pm
Location: Hollow.
Contact:

Re: Change in tiredness

Postby the_antisocial_hermit » Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:13 am

Chris wrote:Introducing more complexity demands more micromanagement on the part of players. That's not fun. Game play trumps realism.

This is what I'm feeling as I read through this thread. I don't need more to micromanage. I don't need to worry about when to log in to let my characters rest if I want a project done in a decent time frame. I feel like the length of most projects offsets what extreme tiredness would do and offsets the time that a person would actually not be working vs the time they would be working.

I don't mind them getting tired when working on projects, but I think it is fine the way it is, unless a better overall system were designed. Changing the values a little wouldn't bother me, but changing them very much or adding more to them seems to go in a direction I wouldn't want to see.
Glitch! is dead! Long live Glitch!
Remember guys and gals, it's all Pretendy Fun Time Games!
User avatar
Ronja Rotschopf
Posts: 3533
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:04 pm
Location: Leipzig - Germany
Contact:

Re: Change in tiredness

Postby Ronja Rotschopf » Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:38 am

Regarding additional tiredness I don't like that it would also have negative influence on fighting. Would give advantages to a group of attackers over busy workers.
User avatar
Pilot
GAB/PD Chair/LO(esp)/RD/PO
Posts: 7250
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:32 pm

Re: Change in tiredness

Postby Pilot » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:21 pm

I'm not sure how this suggestion would help us in raising player retention given the current fragile situation in our numbers.

Perhaps in the fututre, when the world is more populated.
Yang
Posts: 383
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:07 pm

Re: Change in tiredness

Postby Yang » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:05 pm

the_antisocial_hermit wrote:
Chris wrote:Introducing more complexity demands more micromanagement on the part of players. That's not fun. Game play trumps realism.

This is what I'm feeling as I read through this thread. I don't need more to micromanage. I don't need to worry about when to log in to let my characters rest if I want a project done in a decent time frame. I feel like the length of most projects offsets what extreme tiredness would do and offsets the time that a person would actually not be working vs the time they would be working.

Login once for few days and go to bed, then go to work is a lot of "micromanage". So your characters are just robots to do job, not to say, act with others and so on. So why we take 15 characters if we wish only make them work and dont do anything else?

I don't mind them getting tired when working on projects, but I think it is fine the way it is, unless a better overall system were designed. Changing the values a little wouldn't bother me, but changing them very much or adding more to them seems to go in a direction I wouldn't want to see.

Actually when you are working you are resting. +3% tiredness from work and -5% for every hour passed. So each hour you rest 2%, when not working you rest 5%. All this is about stopping resting this 5% when working. That.s so "huge" difference
User avatar
the_antisocial_hermit
Posts: 3675
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 4:04 pm
Location: Hollow.
Contact:

Re: Change in tiredness

Postby the_antisocial_hermit » Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:41 am

Yang wrote:Login once for few days and go to bed, then go to work is a lot of "micromanage". So your characters are just robots to do job, not to say, act with others and so on. So why we take 15 characters if we wish only make them work and dont do anything else?

Nowhere did I say I have too many or too few characters to play and properly RP with others or that I let my characters sit and work silently. I said that I do not like the idea of having to check on my characters more ("micromanage") simply for the sake of mechanics made more complex than necessary. Please do not make assumptions about the way I play in what seems to be a condescending or sarcastic way.

Actually when you are working you are resting. +3% tiredness from work and -5% for every hour passed. So each hour you rest 2%, when not working you rest 5%. All this is about stopping resting this 5% when working. That.s so "huge" difference

I saw some suggested numbers for gaining up to 50%-70% tiredness through staying on projects non-stop which would affect project length a lot without logging in to take a character off the project and letting them rest at intervals. There were also suggestions that weren't as large of a difference. Hence saying that minor adjustments wouldn't bother me, but large changes would.
Glitch! is dead! Long live Glitch!
Remember guys and gals, it's all Pretendy Fun Time Games!
Yang
Posts: 383
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:07 pm

Re: Change in tiredness

Postby Yang » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:29 pm

the_antisocial_hermit wrote:Nowhere did I say I have too many or too few characters to play and properly RP with others or that I let my characters sit and work silently. I said that I do not like the idea of having to check on my characters more ("micromanage") simply for the sake of mechanics made more complex than necessary. Please do not make assumptions about the way I play in what seems to be a condescending or sarcastic way.

Going to sleep and going to work is a part of RP for me. It wont take much time to check character how he is doing. I dont know how is in your places, but my all characters see same situations in their places. People work all the time, never go to bed, or to their homes/rooms. Owning your room is only if you need storage for your materials. Usualy there are no furniture. And also people never go to bed. Is something wrong in that picture?

Actually when you are working you are resting. +3% tiredness from work and -5% for every hour passed. So each hour you rest 2%, when not working you rest 5%. All this is about stopping resting this 5% when working. That.s so "huge" difference

I saw some suggested numbers for gaining up to 50%-70% tiredness through staying on projects non-stop which would affect project length a lot without logging in to take a character off the project and letting them rest at intervals. There were also suggestions that weren't as large of a difference. Hence saying that minor adjustments wouldn't bother me, but large changes would.

Ok i will tell this in other words so more people can understand.
Work make you tired.
Everyhour you rest, even when working.
You rest more then get tired, so you dont need take brake
Removing resting when working make big change, you start to get tired when working, and its adding up
When its 3% like now, after 16h of wroking you have 48 tiredness, so you produce half of your maximum output
Making barrier there so you wont get tired more keep you working and still making your work done, but longer.
When you are resting you are not produce progres in work at all.
This change lower global production, create need for resting, add more need for furniture and own place, make harder to calculate exact output for powergamers.

Conclusion:
little more complex, more RP, more realistic
User avatar
Oasis
Posts: 4556
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 5:30 am
Location: Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Re: Change in tiredness

Postby Oasis » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:40 am

I like it, as long as there is that 50% or so barrier, where you don't get any more tired than that, and it's a slow progression. Maybe lower it to 2% even. Increasing need for furniture is always a good thing.
User avatar
Chroma Key
Translator-Turkish (PR)
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:40 pm

Re: Change in tiredness

Postby Chroma Key » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:50 am

Still do not like it and think that previous reasons still apply.
By the way, there is nothing to say that needing to rest will improve RP - chars may just go to bed and get back to work without a single word, if they so desire. Being forced to rest will not change it.
This does not feel like an improvement to me, at all.
"She could make something sound stupid just by hearing it.”
"For a short moment there, you almost sounded human."
User avatar
curious
Posts: 741
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 2:50 pm

Re: Change in tiredness

Postby curious » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:11 am

I still think in principle, this is workable, but too, also have my doubts about how this would effect the game, and make reference to my earlier scenario. That, and it's beginning to sound a whole lot more complicated that i had initially imagined now.

I think it's hard enough getting players to try and keep chars in certain locations, and possibly only the most dedicated players will even consider trying to make a char survive in a difficult location, whilst many new players would just think... 'nah, what's the point'.

I consider myself quite dedicated in the time I have to play, and don't readily let chars die, but if I spawned one to the realisation that they would inevitable die through lack of skill and probable starvation, because they were too tired? I would think about an early end. Sorry.
Haiku:
To catch a big fish
You must think like a big fish.
I think like a frog.
User avatar
SekoETC
Posts: 15499
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 11:07 am
Location: Finland
Contact:

Re: Change in tiredness

Postby SekoETC » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:05 pm

Back when tiredness was implemented, it was so high that people had to stop and rest every few days or they would get too tired to do anything. It caused a lot of people to build cots but didn't increase rp, just increased the amount of people going to sleep inside. Then it was nerfed so that tiredness from projects doesn't count since it's lower than the resting rate. But I think it could work if there was a threshold so it wouldn't reach 100%. Also it would be nice if coffee and tea got some sort of power again so that rich people wouldn't have to rest as much.
Not-so-sad panda

Return to “Suggestions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests