More expensive stuff

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Re: More expensive stuff

Postby Piscator » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:25 pm

If tools had an actual material worth, I assume people would go scavenging and pick up abandoned tools. Why should we spoil their fun? :wink:

The idea that abandoned tools should rot away is an idea born from the current conditions in my opinion. We have masses of unused tools lying around and the economy is pretty much clogged. If tools were inevitably consumed by the process they are intended for, letting them rot away by the sheer force of time seems a bit unnecessary.
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Re: More expensive stuff

Postby Rusalka » Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:16 pm

Maybe you're right. I must admit I have no idea how much of that stuff is out there.

I like the idea of discovering treasures of ancient civilizations, but I simply assumed that they kept their precious artifacts indoors.
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Re: More expensive stuff

Postby Arlequin » Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:30 pm

Or they could just break randomly, which would save database space and CPU.

The skill of the maker would determine the quality of the tool, and the quality of the tool the chances of breaking apart.

A 'broken tool' would need to be repaired to be put back in use. Each repair decreases one level of quality, until it's broken beyond repair.
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Re: More expensive stuff

Postby Doug R. » Sun Aug 01, 2010 2:11 am

I think stuff happening randomly would just piss people off. At least with a use-based decay, I can ration my tool usage if the tool's important.
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Re: More expensive stuff

Postby Rusalka » Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:21 pm

I can imagine random braking only when it applies for old items. No way that a brand new peen hammer brakes :) But I guess that it's already like that, because no one tracks exact deterioration points.

The big question is, how to setup the resources needed for repairs?

May favourite idea is to exchange parts ,the problem is that most of the stuff does not have parts.

The simplest way is to say if item is deteriorated in 50% than it needs 50% of resources used in production, but it doesn't cover differences between materials. Diamond incrusted sabre won't need any more diamods ever cause the diamond part is not "used", the blade is. On the other side the only thing that has to be fixed in a driller is the actual diamond drill - and it needs to be fixed often.

I tried to develop some sensible algorythm for that but I failed :) Any other ideas?
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Re: More expensive stuff

Postby Piscator » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:40 pm

Rusalka wrote:The simplest way is to say if item is deteriorated in 50% than it needs 50% of resources used in production


I'd just do that. Diamonds might fall of your sabre (if hit by another blade for example) and other parts of a coal drill wear out, too. Even if it's not with the same speed, but we can simplify here I think.

A bigger problem ist that an object doesn't remember what types of parts it's composed of and that you can hardly use 50% of an object to repair it.
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Re: More expensive stuff

Postby SekoETC » Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:13 pm

Currently when components are added to a project, they expire and are eventually deleted from the database. Instead a project field could be added to the objects table, and when a component was added to a project, the project id was recorded in this field and person was updated to 0 (or it could be made negative if we wanted to preserve information of who added it). When the project was finished, it would in turn update the attached field to point to the id of the newly finished object where project=$project_info->id and set project to 0.
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Re: More expensive stuff

Postby EchoMan » Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:15 pm

This is so going to suck in some areas where diamonds are nowhere known, and people by luck managed to trade for a few to build a drill. Or for people spending half a lifetime building a telescope, and all of a sudden their emerald lense needs more emeralds, or it's useless. :)
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Re: More expensive stuff

Postby SekoETC » Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:28 pm

Things that aren't in heavy use hardly fall apart on their own. It would be interesting if for example if you got attacked, a randomly picked item in your inventory could absorb some of the blow and either become useless or less functional until it was fixed. You'd get hit and a lens would pop right out of your telescope and fall on the ground with a chance of breaking. But that would be very difficult to program. Makes me think of when I dropped a cucumber on the floor and it shot out four seeds. I'd imagine any tubular object stuffed with something might function the same.
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Re: More expensive stuff

Postby Piscator » Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:37 pm

If they managed to get some once, they can manage a second time. Also, if there's actual demand for something, you'll find people to supply your needs. Diamond trading might become a lucrative business.

And about the telescope, well, such a thing could stay usable for several lifetimes. You would only need new emeralds if you wanted to repair it and that might actually be a nice quest for your "grandchildren".
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Re: More expensive stuff

Postby Rusalka » Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:47 pm

EchoMan wrote:This is so going to suck in some areas where diamonds are nowhere known, and people by luck managed to trade for a few to build a drill. Or for people spending half a lifetime building a telescope, and all of a sudden their emerald lense needs more emeralds, or it's useless. :)



That is why I don't really like the 50/50 idea. I know it's the easiest, but it would be so much better if we could exchange parts. Then we could introduce a dozen of different lenses, harder, softer with better zoom etc. The same applies to any other item in game. So there would be no bronze or steel knife, there will be just knife, with a blade of choice.

This is total magic, and completely new programming I know :)

Back to reality!
I believe we could have simple system with adding resources. I wonder if Cantrians will keep repairing everything, or just make new ones - cause in this situation, it doesn't really matter. Maybe rapairing should be less effective? Same resources, 100-150% more time.

Telescope deterioration is really low. It takes 25 years to destroy it. I guess that is enough for anybody to obtain those resources. I don't feel sorry for other lazy guys :)

All of deteriorate numbers would probably need some balancing after such a change. A lot of work for RD! :mrgreen:

Seko, I don't know how how database look like. I would love to have discussion about it, but I'm simply too dumb yet ;)
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Re: More expensive stuff

Postby Piscator » Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:04 pm

Actually, as long as there's no real difference between one sword and another, and the deterioration state doesn't reduce an items effectiveness, there's no real need of repairing items at all. You could just use it up and keep another one in your inventory to replace it when it finally crumbles.

We might be trying this system out with non-essential tools like pickaxes, scythes, dung-forks etc. sometime soon. The good thing is that we can switch to the new system item by item.
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Re: More expensive stuff

Postby Rusalka » Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:10 pm

Piscator wrote: We might be trying this system out with non-essential tools like pickaxes, scythes, dung-forks etc. sometime soon. The good thing is that we can switch to the new system item by item


Yes! I think it's much better to try and screw up, then be afraid of trying :) I personally can't wait for this implementation.

Oh, and there is one reason for repair I can think of. When somebody has some unique resources needed for an item, but he hasn't got enough for a new one, he will certainly try to repair the item to extend it's life.
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Re: More expensive stuff

Postby Piscator » Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:13 pm

Yes, that's true. Repairing would enable you to build "half an item". :wink:
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Re: More expensive stuff

Postby EchoMan » Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:57 pm

Piscator wrote:If they managed to get some once, they can manage a second time. Also, if there's actual demand for something, you'll find people to supply your needs. Diamond trading might become a lucrative business.

I find that remark strange. As I said characters have no idea where diamonds grow, and managed to trade by luck. I agree we need some system that make inflation less severe, but this is not it. This will only annoy characters and their players imho.

And the demand thing may work in some areas, but small remote islands doesn't get visited by trade ships from the "rich" world. It doesn't happen today when there already is a demand for diamonds, and it will not happen in the future. At least not until the player base match the size of the world and real societies grow.

I approve of other measures, like:
- Items in repair rot if not worked on. That will take care of the abundance of tools in storage rooms in repair projects.
- To repair an item you need to add some of it's base material (the material with largest weight of everything included to build it). This will probably be stone, wood, iron or steel most of the time.

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