Make the game interesting - Stop repairing!

Out-of-character discussion forum for players of Cantr II to discuss new ideas for the development of the Cantr II game.

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Crosshair
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Postby Crosshair » Sat Aug 19, 2006 2:45 pm

Steel is much to valuble, because it is a status symbol. Things you'd think were valuble, like Gold, or Silver, aren't because they have no use. They give no benefit. Even if someone with a gold crown walked into your town holding a bone club, you'd not take him seriously. But if someone in a loincloth holding a claymore walked in, you'd definitely take him seriously, would you not? I do not know how we could make steel less valuble, or even if we want to, but that is the problem: everything depends on steel.
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Songthrush
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Postby Songthrush » Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:04 pm

It's the other way around. Steel is a status-symbol because it is valuable for the gameplay.

Gold is meaningless in Cantr, because you can't make a sword out of gold.

This raises the question: "why is Gold valuable in the real world?", but this is a treacherous, complicated question. It is really of the same order as "why are there wars on Earth". We can invent any number of superficial textbook explanations, and satisfy the naive with them. But the question will still remain.
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Rusalka
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Postby Rusalka » Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:20 am

Crosshair wrote:Steel is much to valuble, because it is a status symbol. Things you'd think were valuble, like Gold, or Silver, aren't because they have no use. They give no benefit


What we have in RL from jewlery? Nice clothes? musical instruments? And whole other "useless" stuff? We are just happy when we have it, we feel better. And when we feel better, we are more looking forward to life and other people, we have motivation to achieve our goals etc. We can't enjoy it in Cantr because our beautiful items are nothing but a few lines of text. W can not but why our chars can't? We could make them enjoy them by adding a new attribute called "morale" or "motivation" which determines, for exemple, effecivity of work.
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Solutions Maximus
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Postby Solutions Maximus » Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:35 am

I really like the idea of a limit of resources. Of course, it could build with time. 10k of iron... next year 20k.. next year 30k... then it caps at 40k. Could give a boost to economics. Also would add more tensions in-game. Tensions are a good thing. The majority of players do want some sort of violence in Cantr.
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Postby Zanthos » Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:41 am

Yes, but my problem is finding people who will join me in starting the violence.

I just spawned a fairly strong expert fighter, but I doubt he'll make a good bad guy because it is hard to find support for criminals in an area with mob mentality favoring peace.
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Postby Mykey » Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:02 am

What necessary words... super, a remarkable phrase
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Zanthos
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Postby Zanthos » Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:12 am

The only way to really start a criminal group is to actually have a violently inclined town, and some yuppie newspawn would spawn there, run to a town telling how evil we are, and would get an army on our doorstep.
Person: Akamada doesnt control the animals.

You see a wild boar attack Person.

Person: I still dont believe you.



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deadboy
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Postby deadboy » Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:06 am

Zanthos wrote:The only way to really start a criminal group is to actually have a violently inclined town, and some yuppie newspawn would spawn there, run to a town telling how evil we are, and would get an army on our doorstep.
]

I know, I've played cantr for a year and so far I have not had one evil character...... :cry: and I think I have only killed three or four, all of them theives. *Cries even more*

No but seriously ;), this is a problem with cantr right now, that the things that made even peaceful life interesting, the evil groups, because all good needs evil to fight, groups like the TBR and the bandits, have all been defeated, and now it is too late in the game to try to start up more as you would be slaughtered before you even got four people to join you. Now petty piratry is all there is and that is more annoying than fun to fight, like new spawn theives. But, if we change some of the things back to how it was in the beginning of the game to give starting up organisations abit of an advantage when dealing with weaker towns we could solve this.... so long as there isn't a power-hub somewhere in striking distance :D
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N-Aldwitch
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Postby N-Aldwitch » Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:23 pm

In regards to where you said it's hard to start an evil group now:

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!


:P :P :P No really! Wrong!!!! lol, I've got two or three on their way.

I mean, if you say, 'Lets start a tribe to kill people', of course it won't work- it never would have in the first place, nothing's changed there.

If you just keep quiet for the first 10-15 years of your development of your army/tribe/group then once strong enough, announce the true plans to the minors (the majors, the advisors, you know, the higher-ups would know) and then you've got your army.

I think your problem is you're looking for a quick fix? Sadly in Cantr there isn't. Things like the TBR have been around for thousands of days. (cantr days and real life days)[/i]
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deadboy
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Postby deadboy » Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:35 pm

Really? You actually managed to do that with -several- of your characters? I'm in the middle of trying several ways of doing what you've done right now, I'm trying to buy an army, do exactly what you said, and also I may just try the quick announcement method, but so far all of them have gone disasterously wrong
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we" - George W. Bush
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Agar
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Postby Agar » Sun Aug 20, 2006 3:09 pm

I have a character who has been working on a plot for some 20 years to forge an efficent iron producing xenophobic island nation. Since radios were introduced, this has become even more of a reality. Soon, it will be a fact in the game, and I'll be thrilled to leave it's mark on cantr as part of my legacy.

Truth be told, he recently narrowly avoided being killed. But the present fragile state will be passing quite soon.
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Cogliostro
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Re: Make the game interesting - Stop repairing!

Postby Cogliostro » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:12 am

Many of the people who posted in this thread, incl. deadboy, have since left the game. But his ideas and points as written down here are especially relevant now that even MORE decay features are unfortunately being considered.
Rumaan
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Re: Make the game interesting - Stop repairing!

Postby Rumaan » Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:34 am

You started a recent thread on piles of crap. I agree with you in that some of the resources need to have an inherent value to them. That is why good weapons are always kept safely away from newspawns. But the stuff is so abundant on the old islands that unless you are living on a mountain or a forest, you are almost assured of free food, clothes, basic defense and weapons, tools etc. within days of spawning. Food has the most inherent value in the game and yet it is not hoarded. I ask you why.

So, just inherent value is not sufficient. Additionally, the resources should not be too abundant.
Cogliostro
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Re: Make the game interesting - Stop repairing!

Postby Cogliostro » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:18 am

A convincing argument! You can't deny that scarcity plays a role, yet it's still very counterproductive to get obsessive-compulsive with it. Imagine what things would look like if piles of food would rot away at a fast rate even inside buildings and containers. You'd think that would make food more valuable for trading. In Cantr-reality though, it would unfortunately not lead to this intuitive result. It would just make getting food into a more annoying annoyance for players, and over time drastically decrease the number of characters through death and player attention deficit. Similar results were seen with object deterioration, the problem is that players just don't have the physical real world time to switch from repairing one object, to the next, to the next... and eventually they are forced to realize it's a stupid, losing battle, and quit. That's what deadboy meant when he wrote about the failure of the repair system.

As practical proof of this I submit what happened to a formerly abundant and now somewhat scarce, food item, smoked meat. You used to be able to make lots of it with a tiny amount of wood in a simple smoker. It was a very popular food in many locations and especially for travellers. Then, the scarcity ideas got sway with the dev team, and smokers were changed to make them consume immense amounts of wood to work. Smoked meat became both much more expensive to make and more scarce. But did this increase the game value of smoked meat any? Counter to intuition...it absolutely did not! Not because of large stocks, but just because food is a basic necessity that "needs to be gotten out of the way, one way or another", so you can adventure, roleplay, explore the rest of the game. Smoked meat's value did not increase because its function in the game was a low value function; low priority, without any inherent social importance for players.

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