Make the game interesting - Stop repairing!

Out-of-character discussion forum for players of Cantr II to discuss new ideas for the development of the Cantr II game.

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deadboy
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Make the game interesting - Stop repairing!

Postby deadboy » Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:10 pm

This is pretty simple. I call to get rid of repairs, get rid of deterioration. Do NOT add it for machines, or cars, or anything else for that matter. Stop trying to make up excuses for it, or fine tune it, or add it to more things to make it seem vital. Get rid of repairs, give characters more time on their hands, more freedom, and therefore allow the game to progress! Allow history to happen! If old towns wern't stuck in repairing ruts I know that more wars would happen so that they had things to do! I know that more talking and rping would happen.

To put it simply, count your loses with repairing, admit it was a failure and a bad idea, and get rid of it!
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Mykey
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Postby Mykey » Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:19 pm

What talented idea
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Rusalka
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Postby Rusalka » Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:02 am

The biggest problem in Cantr is that we have 21-century thinking people in medieval reality. Characters usually profess environmentalistic and pacific outlooks. We, 21-century people are used to such views, but why? Because our governments are spending bilions of dollars every year to support huge armies which never fight. They exist to keep peace in the world. Funny isn't it? :) We don't have armies in Cantr. I've seen lots of opportunities to take over a town, or a store, filled with goods. I bet I'm not the only one. Why? Why we don't fight in Cantr? I'm sure it is not a repair problem. Problem is somewhere inside our heads.
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Mykey
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Postby Mykey » Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:05 am

And, what here ridiculous?
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Nosajimiki
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Postby Nosajimiki » Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:36 am

It seems to me the most viable Millitary stratagy in this game ussally involves boats... ussally for piracy mind you, but it allows an offensive force to get in, do dammage, and get away before the big army of peace lovers get-to-gether and tair you a new one... This said, what's a favorite past time on a boat? Dun, dun, dun! REPAIRS! that's right, ironicly enough fixing old stuff actually makes being a pirate more entertaining, it's the peace loving economy builders that have to really worry about it screwing up thier dayly reutines. Truth is, yes, it does make everything take a bit longer to acomplish and mostly just adds tedium to the game. I don't really think it's a bad idea persay, it just takes longer than it should. Infact, in most cases it take longer to fix a badly aged item than make a new one which may have some real-life presitence, but since the system, to my understanding is mostly just there for removing old unused things from play, does have a negitive effect on gameplay in my opinion.
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Solutions Maximus
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Postby Solutions Maximus » Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:14 am

There is a whole market opened up for repairing. It makes jobs, and it prevents overcrowding.


Peace in Cantr exists because the players have no biases against the other characters they encounter. Race, ethnicity, culture, and history are key to the violence of the real world. If I were to mention Iraqis, most Americans will feel some resentment. A similar effect if I mentioned Lebanon. Also, Cantr remains united in the fact that all the players are playing the same game. There are few hard set countries/kingdoms/realms in Cantr, thus less hard feelings. Of course, there are always exceptions. Players often play, whether they realize it or not, with a degree of real life moral code. Murder is wrong, so it doesn't happen near as often in Cantr.

Some cultures in the real world have a much different moral code. Cannibals often eat their dead in religious rituals, which leads to another point. There are no powerful religions in Cantr. The reason for this is, again, bias. Players create characters with a bias, because they (the players) know there are no Cantr deities.

Think about human history. Religion is one of the greatest attributes to a violent society. Reasoning is useless when the one you are trying to reason with "knows" he is right. This causes battles. Physical or verbal, people will express that their beliefs are correct. It is even more apparent when the offender is an infidel.

Religion is difficult to create in Cantr because there are no reasons for a person to follow in a religion. This just seems to restrict the characters. Without natural disasters, a reason, and evidence, is lacking.

Religions have power. Religions have extorted, usurped, murdered, lied, and cheated throughout history, and this is something that Cantr has found difficult to re-create.

I don't wish to start a religious debate. I am just showing that which is lacking in our Cantr.

I'm going to step off my soap-box now.
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The Sociologist
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Re: Make the game interesting - Stop repairing!

Postby The Sociologist » Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:21 am

deadboy wrote:This is pretty simple. I call to get rid of repairs, get rid of deterioration.

I cannot agree, though I do feel repairs should involve the addition of materials and therefore can take much much less time to do. Perhaps even a nominal amount of time. This would solve most of the current problems, including storing items by way of "spurious" one-hour repair projects and so on.

Nosajimiki wrote: It seems to me the most viable Millitary stratagy in this game ussally involves boats...

The only repeat only viable military strategy in the game involves dragging people into locked rooms to kill them. And Cantr is a MUD, so a boat is just another kind of locked room. This system is in place so as to permit the extermination of people who don't start sentences with capital letters, who ask about steel on the same day they spawn, who mention their skills in public, and assorted other kinds of game-threatening barbarians.

Apart from this exception, combat or conflict are in no sense tolerated in Cantr. Indeed, current game mechanics render them effectively impossible.
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The Sociologist
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Postby The Sociologist » Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:30 am

Solutions Maximus wrote:Peace in Cantr exists because the players have no biases against the other characters they encounter. [...] Also, Cantr remains united in the fact that all the players are playing the same game. There are few hard set countries/kingdoms/realms in Cantr, thus less hard feelings.

Sorry, but you are quite wrong. There used to be considerable violence in Cantr. The reason that this is no longer the case is that the balancing of the combat system was utterly ruined and the players who favored a strategy game involving some element of combat were driven away. I don't understand why the color scheme here is green. It should have been changed to pink.
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Solutions Maximus
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Postby Solutions Maximus » Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:37 am

I'm comparing it to real life. People are murdered every single day based upon race or some other bias. There is far less bias in Cantr. I agree, there was more violence when the system was different. It was more of a war game then. It drew different people to the game.

It is more of a social game now.


Perhaps I'm not explaining my reasoning correctly.
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fishfin
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Postby fishfin » Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:37 am

I don't understand why the color scheme here is green. It should have been changed to pink.

Nooooooo

please anything but pink...
The following statement is not true.

The previous statement is not true.
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The Sociologist
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Postby The Sociologist » Sat Aug 19, 2006 2:32 am

Solutions Maximus wrote:I'm comparing it to real life. People are murdered every single day based upon race or some other bias. There is far less bias in Cantr. I agree, there was more violence when the system was different. It was more of a war game then. It drew different people to the game.

It is more of a social game now.

Perhaps I'm not explaining my reasoning correctly.


No, I'm afraid you are not. :wink: Most online games are far more violent. Cantr was never that violent, but in the old days there was some degree of conflict and attacking a town was possible. Since the changes, that is no longer the case, or at least not without a huge differential in numbers and technology.
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Agar
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Postby Agar » Sat Aug 19, 2006 2:46 am

Let me first say that RD has nothing to do with the combat system.

When I was a newbie, a newspawn with a stolen saber could wreak as much havok as it took Bandit and his crew to cause.

The new system has completely neutered combat in favor of defense, perhaps in an over zealous attempt to keep that from happening again.

I think there is a happy middle ground between the two, and things could be a little more shifted towards the war end of things than the peace end we have now. For it to take 40 people, possibly cheating (probally), to cause as much damage as one used to be able to do, is silly. I'd like to see violence a little more, well vilolent.

Yes, that will mean characters will die. That will mean your favorite characters may die. But it will make things more interesting again.

Tell me Sociologist, if combat was not about dragging anymore, would you be satisfied that your character died for a good cause to bring that change?
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wichita
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Re: Make the game interesting - Stop repairing!

Postby wichita » Sat Aug 19, 2006 3:03 am

The Sociologist wrote:
deadboy wrote:This is pretty simple. I call to get rid of repairs, get rid of deterioration.

I cannot agree, though I do feel repairs should involve the addition of materials and therefore can take much much less time to do. Perhaps even a nominal amount of time. This would solve most of the current problems, including storing items by way of "spurious" one-hour repair projects and so on.


Despite public opinion saying otherwise, RD and ProgD have discussed implementing decay per use as well as repair equipment to add such realism. There are just plenty of technical hurdles to overcome in getting it set up, but since we are often short of volunteers who actually want to make these improvements happen, it is coming much slower than everybody would like.

The Sociologist wrote:
Nosajimiki wrote: It seems to me the most viable Millitary stratagy in this game ussally involves boats...

The only repeat only viable military strategy in the game involves dragging people into locked rooms to kill them. And Cantr is a MUD, so a boat is just another kind of locked room. This system is in place so as to permit the extermination of people who don't start sentences with capital letters, who ask about steel on the same day they spawn, who mention their skills in public, and assorted other kinds of game-threatening barbarians.

Apart from this exception, combat or conflict are in no sense tolerated in Cantr. Indeed, current game mechanics render them effectively impossible.


Dragging behind locked doors is the easiest strategy, not the only strategy. Those words are not synonymous. I call as evidence all three of my characters that have been succesfully slaughtered in combat. The Barons took down two in the middle of the town square. The third was sliced down by TBR while defending her own boat. While the latter did involve boats, my character was not stored away safe and secure while the assailants picked at her.

The game mechanics do not render combat impossible, they merely render it improbable for anyone with less than 23.5 hours per day to devote to strategy. :lol: Frankly combat will never be balanced, there will always be a section of the game population pissed off about some aspect of it, so I am inclined to stop messing with it and just leave it the way it is while I concentrate on things that might make a net difference.
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Mykey
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Postby Mykey » Sat Aug 19, 2006 3:11 am

I apologise, but, in my opinion, you are not right. I suggest it to discuss. Write to me in PM.
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Mykey
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Postby Mykey » Sat Aug 19, 2006 3:16 am

It can be discussed infinitely
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