Religions

[Joshuamonkey]

There's other religion threads, but they're old, and I think we could use a new one.
Let's talk about religion! I saw one religion thread where they started off with saying their religion and their beliefs. I don't think that's necessary, but it's probably a good way to get ideas out there and help get rid of misunderstandings or bad rumors.
I'm a Mormon/member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS).

To start off:

the average Christian knows far more about Christianity than any agno-atheist just as the average Islamic knows the Holy Koran better and the average Jew knows the Torah. Most/many of us of faith study our own particular theological documents on a regular basis and can display a greater familiarity with those writings. We tend not to know, in general, as much about other theologies, its never really been an option unless we might have some questioning of our own faith or are merely curious imo. So we are, in general, comparing the 'jack of all trades' in agnosti-atheism who may have a broader knowledge of the surface of alot of faiths, to the specialist in a particular faith who (ideally) knows what he/she believes and exactly why.

"the average Christian knows far more" According to who? I think that "ideally" makes a big difference. The thing is, there's plenty of Christians who don't go to church or study scriptures much. Perhaps it's what they grew up with, or they just like the Christ idea and see all His great influence, so they "believe" in him and call themselves Christians. Many current Atheists and Agnostics may have been Christians in the past. We're all humans, no matter what religion, so we have the same capacity to learn, more or less, and I think it makes sense that Atheists and Agnostics would have studied in order to pick their position in religion. With all the religious influence, you'd probably need to have a good religious knowledge in order to not join one of the sides. And perhaps they're trying to find what's right themselves. On the Pew survey taken this year, Atheists and Agnostics still knew more about Christianity and the Bible than all the Christian categories except for White Evangelicals and Mormons. Were the questions more about "general" Christianity? Perhaps so.

Something else worth noting, on the literacy test taken by okcupid, agnostics and especially atheists were high, and protestants and catholics were low. It doesn't necessarily mean that the religions themselves are bad, but it's evidence that the type of people that go questioning religion are intelligent. I mean, if you think about it, if you believe your religion is the one right religion, wouldn't it be understandable that people who aren't in your religion (especially agnostics) aren't in another one either? Perhaps their just searching for what's right. That's one reason why I have an especial respect for agnostics and atheists, though at the same time I see a lot of good in other religions as well.

Mormons have the funnest.

I don't take offence, but I'm curious as to what you mean.

[Doug R.]

What happens to the Christians who rejected him? What happens to Gandhi, the rejected? Of course, this could be one of the many things we're not meant to understand ever, but we can't but wonder.

Just to finish off my thoughts on Ghandi:

Who is more virtuous, the man that walks the path of God because he is told that is the way to salvation, or the man that walks the path of God because he has figured out for himself that that is the right thing to do, even if (or especially if) he's never heard of God? Just some more food for thought.

[gejyspa]

There's other religion threads, but they're old, and I think we could use a new one.
Let's talk about religion! I saw one religion thread where they started off with saying their religion and their beliefs. I don't think that's necessary, but it's probably a good way to get ideas out there and help get rid of misunderstandings or bad rumors.
I'm a Mormon/member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS).

To start off:

the average Christian knows far more about Christianity than any agno-atheist just as the average Islamic knows the Holy Koran better and the average Jew knows the Torah. Most/many of us of faith study our own particular theological documents on a regular basis and can display a greater familiarity with those writings. We tend not to know, in general, as much about other theologies, its never really been an option unless we might have some questioning of our own faith or are merely curious imo. So we are, in general, comparing the 'jack of all trades' in agnosti-atheism who may have a broader knowledge of the surface of alot of faiths, to the specialist in a particular faith who (ideally) knows what he/she believes and exactly why.

"the average Christian knows far more" According to who?

Well, actually, the Pew survey breaks the results down by religious orientation of the questions and by respondents' religion, so you can check it our yourself.

I think that "ideally" makes a big difference. The thing is, there's plenty of Christians who don't go to church or study scriptures much. Perhaps it's what they grew up with, or they just like the Christ idea and see all His great influence, so they "believe" in him and call themselves Christians. Many current Atheists and Agnostics may have been Christians in the past. We're all humans, no matter what religion, so we have the same capacity to learn, more or less, and I think it makes sense that Atheists and Agnostics would have studied in order to pick their position in religion. With all the religious influence, you'd probably need to have a good religious knowledge in order to not join one of the sides. And perhaps they're trying to find what's right themselves. On the Pew survey taken this year, Atheists and Agnostics still knew more about Christianity and the Bible than all the Christian categories except for White Evangelicals and Mormons. Were the questions more about "general" Christianity? Perhaps so.

Something else worth noting, on the literacy test taken by okcupid, agnostics and especially atheists were high, and protestants and catholics were low. It doesn't necessarily mean that the religions themselves are bad, but it's evidence that the type of people that go questioning religion are intelligent. I mean, if you think about it, if you believe your religion is the one right religion, wouldn't it be understandable that people who aren't in your religion (especially agnostics) aren't in another one either? Perhaps their just searching for what's right. That's one reason why I have an especial respect for agnostics and atheists, though at the same time I see a lot of good in other religions as well.

Except that Jews don't believe that we have "the one true way". Rather, we believe "the righteous of all nations have a share in the world to come". OTOH, we do have an advantage when it comes to the Pew survey, by the simple fact that we ARE a minority religion in the US. Therefore, we are constantly seeing snippets of the majority religion in our news and entertainment sources. E.g. I know what "transubstantiation" is. Do you know what "tikkun olam" is? I'm familiar with the story of the wedding at Cana, do you know the famous story of the oven of Akhnai? I know that at Protestant weddings, the father of the brides gives her away to the groom, the minister stereotypically starts off with "Dearly beloved", has the participants promise some variation of "love, honor and obey/cherish" the other... What does the rabbi start off saying in an Orthodox Jewish wedding? Who gives away the bride? What does the groom say to the bride?

See what I mean?

(as mentioned in T/RotD, I'm an Orthodox Jew)

[Joshuamonkey]

Yep, you're right. And Mormons are a minority also, though not quite as much. (Apparently the number of Jews in the US is actually decreasing. It seems like Jews are moving to Israel like Mormons move to Utah.) At least with Mormons, a Seminary study class during high school is strongly emphasized, kind of like how nearly all active Mormon boys in the US become Boy Scouts. From what I've heard, Jews do a lot of studying also.

Except that Jews don't believe that we have "the one true way". Rather, we believe "the righteous of all nations have a share in the world to come".

I should've explained my point better. I believe that also. My religion probably believes in a lot of Jewish believes, since we believe that before Christ, Judaism was the correct religion, meaning that we believe in the words of Old Testament prophets as long as they're recorded and translated correctly.
What I mean is, even though people have different religions, they're rewarded based on their works, good or bad. However, I still believe that my religion is the one church with the fullness of the gospel and the authority of the priesthood, and therefore can produce modern revelation that applies to everyone through our ordained prophet(s).
Or do you mean that other religions can be completely correct/ordained of God (not that that makes sense), or that not everyone should join Judaism?

[Diego]

Of course, this could be one of the many things we're not meant to understand ever

*philosophical barfing*

[gejyspa]

Yep, you're right. And Mormons are a minority also, though not quite as much. (Apparently the number of Jews in the US is actually decreasing. It seems like Jews are moving to Israel like Mormons move to Utah.)

Unfortunately (from my POV) true and false respectively. The numbers are decreasing, but not from emigration (in fact, it appears to be about 2000 Jews going from the US to Israel per year, and 3000 going the other way). The main culprit is intermarriage, with slightly over half of the Jews in the United States marrying non-Jews. (cf. Hillary Clinton) About 1/3 of those raise their kids as Jewish, although from the Orthodox point of view, about half those kids are Jewish, and half are not (since anyone born to Jewish mother is Jewish, and those without are not, unless they convert).

At least with Mormons, a Seminary study class during high school is strongly emphasized, kind of like how nearly all active Mormon boys in the US become Boy Scouts. From what I've heard, Jews do a lot of studying also.

We do. Formal schooling is quite a long day. My high school kids go to school from 7:45AM to 5:30PM (which includes both the morning and afternoon prayers) (On Friday, they get out at 3PM (2PM in the winter) to get ready for the Sabbath) . And then even after that, two of my kids go voluntarily to learning program for another hour on Thursday evenings, four of us go to a parent/child learning program for an hour on Saturday nights in the wintertime, two of us go to a learning program for another hour Saturday afternoon, and two (sometimes three) of my kids learn some more for about a half hour after morning services on Sunday. Of course, this is completely besides random studying here and there, from online sources, for example. (For instance, at the hospital where I work, we have an afternoon minyan (prayer group) M-Th, and we often do a bit of impromptu studying for a few minutes while waiting for the required ten men to show up). But really, we could learn almost 24/7 if we wanted to. There's classes all the time.

Except that Jews don't believe that we have "the one true way". Rather, we believe "the righteous of all nations have a share in the world to come".

I should've explained my point better. I believe that also. My religion probably believes in a lot of Jewish believes, since we believe that before Christ, Judaism was the correct religion, meaning that we believe in the words of Old Testament prophets as long as they're recorded and translated correctly.
What I mean is, even though people have different religions, they're rewarded based on their works, good or bad.

We believe that, too (Mainline Protestantism, OTOH, believes that mankind is saved by faith/grace alone, not on works).

However, I still believe that my religion is the one church with the fullness of the gospel and the authority of the priesthood, and therefore can produce modern revelation that applies to everyone through our ordained prophet(s).
Or do you mean that other religions can be completely correct/ordained of God (not that that makes sense), or that not everyone should join Judaism?

I admit to being ignorant of what the phrase "ordained of God" means, so I will skip that part. But the answer is that we DON'T believe everyone should become Jewish. In fact, would-be converts are actually DIScouraged from becoming Jewish (although they are certainly welcomed if they do persist in their efforts to become Jewish, and are considered to be 100% bona fide true Jews). However, it is true that we believe that there are certain laws that all of mankind are obligated to obey. Termed the Seven Laws of the children of Noah, they are:
Do not murder
Do not steal
Do not commit adultery/incest
Do not blaspheme
Do not commit idolatry
Do not rip the limbs off of living creatures
Do set up a court system to enforce laws.
Past those minimums, we don't really care how societies set up their parameters. Unlike Xtianity and Islam, but more like Buddhism and Bahá'í, we believe that there is more than one correct path to approaching God. The 613 commandments of Judaism are our way, but they are not for everyone.

[Joshuamonkey]

Mainline Protestantism, OTOH, believes that mankind is saved by faith/grace alone, not on works

Yes, for certain, not all Christianity agrees with each other.

But the answer is that we DON'T believe everyone should become Jewish. In fact, would-be converts are actually DIScouraged from becoming Jewish

Why is this? If it's possible for them to become Jewish.

"ordained of God"

It means that it's the church established and organized by God. Basically, it's His church. The word "ordained/ordination" is most commonly used in my religion to refer to someone receiving the priesthood by the laying on of hands, also known as being "set apart."

[gejyspa]

Mainline Protestantism, OTOH, believes that mankind is saved by faith/grace alone, not on works

Yes, for certain, not all Christianity agrees with each other.

But the answer is that we DON'T believe everyone should become Jewish. In fact, would-be converts are actually DIScouraged from becoming Jewish

Why is this? If it's possible for them to become Jewish.

I'm not sure if you are asking me about the first part or the second part, so I will answer both. Why don't we believe that everyone should become Jewish? I will attempt to answer that by way of an imperfect analogy. Let's suppose I have a car, a Toyota (I don't, in fact have a Toyota). I love my Toyota, it's the right car for me. It has all the features I need for my large family. My neighbor has another car, a Ford. It has all the right features that he wants. It's the right car for him. Believing as I do that the Toyota is the best care for me, would I try to convince my neighbor to switch to a Toyota? No, because I recognize that his car fits his needs. Both will get us to work and to the store. As long as he doesn't hit my car with his car, I'm fine with him driving a Ford, and I don't feel in any way he has made a mistake.

Why discourage converts? Because we want to make sure that people are a) sincere in their desire to convert, b) understand the ramifications of converting (e.g. being responsible for 613 commandments, and not just 7), c) understand that conversion is in no way necessary for being close to God and d) are converting for the right reasons (e.g. there is an opinion that we do not except any converts at all when/if the Jews are in power, since people would want to convert simply to be part of the "in crowd") Discouragement from converting is learned from the book of Ruth, 1:7-18.

"ordained of God"

It means that it's the church established and organized by God. Basically, it's His church. The word "ordained/ordination" is most commonly used in my religion to refer to someone receiving the priesthood by the laying on of hands, also known as being "set apart."

I have no problem with the idea that Judaism is the religion that God set out for the Jews, but that his plans for other people were different ways of coming to him.

[Alladinsane]

Sorry, I don't check the forum every day, or I would have responded sooner. I will try to throw a few things out, but again, I don't think we are going to do anything more than self-explanations and flames here. Hey, I didn't start this thread, so maybe plausible deniability will apply.

I'm a Mormon/member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS).

***I am not good with forum management, so if my replies don't really appear 'outside of the box' (textually speaking), I am hoping that the numerous asterisks will set my thoughts apart. Congrats that you are serving in the LDS. While I may disagree with you on content, I am not authoritative enough to condemn it. That book by Krakauer must have been a chafe though, huh? I hope we can keep this respectful, though usually this kind of thread is the most irresistible type of troll-bait*****
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To start off:

Most/many of us of faith study our own particular theological documents on a regular basis and can display a greater familiarity with those writings. We tend not to know, in general, as much about other theologies, its never really been an option So we are, in general, comparing the 'jack of all trades' in agnosti-atheism who may have a broader knowledge of the surface of alot of faiths, to the specialist in a particular faith who (ideally) knows what he/she believes and exactly why.

"the average Christian knows far more" According to who? The thing is, there's plenty of Christians who don't go to church or study scriptures much. Perhaps it's what they grew up with, or they just like the Christ idea and see all His great influence, so they "believe" in him and call themselves Christians. Many current Atheists and Agnostics may have been Christians in the past. We're all humans, no matter what religion, so we have the same capacity to learn, more or less, and I think it makes sense that Atheists and Agnostics would have studied in order to pick their position in religion. With all the religious influence, you'd probably need to have a good religious knowledge in order to not join one of the sides. And perhaps they're trying to find what's right themselves. On the Pew survey taken this year, Atheists and Agnostics still knew more about Christianity and the Bible than all the Christian categories except for White Evangelicals and Mormons. Were the questions more about "general" Christianity? Perhaps so.

Something else worth noting, on the literacy test taken by okcupid, agnostics and especially atheists were high, and protestants and catholics were low. It doesn't necessarily mean that the religions themselves are bad, but it's evidence that the type of people that go questioning religion are intelligent. I mean, if you think about it, if you believe your religion is the one right religion, wouldn't it be understandable that people who aren't in your religion (especially agnostics) aren't in another one either? Perhaps their just searching for what's right. That's one reason why I have an especial respect for agnostics and atheists, though at the same time I see a lot of good in other religions as well.

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****I left the part of your quote of my quote (just had to write that) that perhaps you glossed over? The majority of the people in my particular church read (or claim to read, there is always a simon in the midst) the Bible daily. How can a person who has never picked up a book claim to know more about it than the person who picks it up and spends 'x' amount of time a week in studying it? I don't know more about Rockets than rocket scientists do, nor more about football than the coach of the Buccaneers does...though there are times when I -think- I know more (line plunge on 3rd and 13????? argh!). Those who do more than claim their Christianity (or Mormonism, Judaism, Wicca...whatever), but practice it will always know more about their particular lifestyle, not because they say they are of one particular faith (or lack thereof), but because thats who they are, not who they say they are. So you are right, actions do speak louder than words.

As far as OKcupid...I'm actually familiar with the site, can't remember why I stumbled on it one time and had to delete the reams of spam they sent me..."xxxx sent you a kiss" etc. Big mistake that took me a few months to repair. Back on topic: I would hope you and anyone else around would always take an internet poll with a grain of salt, first of all, its not really a place that too many Religious people would frequent, so the representative sample has got to be questioned until proof of it as a true cross-section is established. I suspect you will never find that.

I am a news junkie...I have noticed that the viewer polls taken on different channels seem to be an almost perfect representation of the targetted demographic who typically view that channel....cnn polls are primarily tilted towards the left and foxnews polls are targetted towards the right. It makes sense since (homonym alert!) the people watching those channels tend to be the ones taking those polls, heck, if we weren't watching them, we probably wouldn't even know the polls exist. So when foxnews says 59% of the people dislike Obama, I say 'yeah right'...the same thing applies when a poll results the exact opposite on CNN...."yeah right". Well sir, I would humbly suggest that the same kind of thing may apply to many internet sites, especially ones of the dating genre. While there are some (I know a couple who met on eharmony), I would suggest to you that the typical Christian doesn't usually stumble upon those sites.

Mormons have the funnest.

I don't take offence, but I'm curious as to what you mean.

So many posts, I will reply as I get inspiration I guess.

Be well

[Alladinsane]

At least with Mormons, a Seminary study class during high school is strongly emphasized, kind of like how nearly all active Mormon boys in the US become Boy Scouts. From what I've heard, Jews do a lot of studying also.

We do. Formal schooling is quite a long day. My high school kids go to school from 7:45AM to 5:30PM (which includes both the morning and afternoon prayers) (On Friday, they get out at 3PM (2PM in the winter) to get ready for the Sabbath) . And then even after that, two of my kids go voluntarily to learning program for another hour on Thursday evenings, four of us go to a parent/child learning program for an hour on Saturday nights in the wintertime, two of us go to a learning program for another hour Saturday afternoon, and two (sometimes three) of my kids learn some more for about a half hour after morning services on Sunday. Of course, this is completely besides random studying here and there, from online sources, for example. (For instance, at the hospital where I work, we have an afternoon minyan (prayer group) M-Th, and we often do a bit of impromptu studying for a few minutes while waiting for the required ten men to show up). But really, we could learn almost 24/7 if we wanted to. There's classes all the time.

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I guess we (our particular slice of the Protestant pie) do send our kids to private school when we can afford it, or there has been a dramatic growth in the practice of 'home-schooling' where we can teach them what we want. As long as they pass the extremely easy state testing, they are within their rights. Teachers unions are making a push against it, at least locally, but I don't think that they case has much merit unless they were to pack a court (\begin disclaimer --which is only hypothetical! I would never suggest that any court is anywhere close to biased. /end disclaimer ). But we also practice that spirituality is a family responsibility too, arguably even the primary responsibility. We expect parents to be parents and try to offer help to those who can't fulfill this for whatever reason. Our church is open 6nights a week with youth programs, womens groups, addiction therapy, mens groups, mixed, childcare, elementary schoolers, middle schoolers, high schoolers etc (I don't know how many I am forgetting). We also participate in 'life groups' (basically fellowship and/or Bible study) in the homes of those who choose to allow people into their home. We hosted a lifegroup for couples for 4 years and now host a womens group every Wednesday night. Its a loss of privacy, but worth it in lifelong friendships and connections.
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Except that Jews don't believe that we have "the one true way". Rather, we believe "the righteous of all nations have a share in the world to come".

I should've explained my point better. I believe that also. My religion probably believes in a lot of Jewish believes, since we believe that before Christ, Judaism was the correct religion, meaning that we believe in the words of Old Testament prophets as long as they're recorded and translated correctly.
What I mean is, even though people have different religions, they're rewarded based on their works, good or bad.

We believe that, too (Mainline Protestantism, OTOH, believes that mankind is saved by faith/grace alone, not on works).

However, I still believe that my religion is the one church with the fullness of the gospel and the authority of the priesthood, and therefore can produce modern revelation that applies to everyone through our ordained prophet(s).
Or do you mean that other religions can be completely correct/ordained of God (not that that makes sense), or that not everyone should join Judaism?

We don't really function based on belief; our core question is: "What does the Bible say?" In a book that takes a dedicated reader a year to finish (took me almost 3), you can usually find something that addresses it. Take for instance, a subject that alot of people love to allude to around here: Sex. Alot of non-readers may think its not addressed there, I am here to tell you that not only is it there, but it gets 'nasty' enough to make Heidi Fleiss blush, well maybe not her, but I am not even talking about the stuff in Leviticus...you want to be shocked? Ezekial...I won't mention the exact passages. If it were written in some of today's language, it might be a best seller...oh wait, it is...best selling book of all time, but I digress. The Book has murder, rape, robbery, sex, incest, adultery, deception, war and a host of other stuff. I recommend it highly.
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I admit to being ignorant of what the phrase "ordained of God" means, so I will skip that part. But the answer is that we DON'T believe everyone should become Jewish. In fact, would-be converts are actually DIScouraged from becoming Jewish (although they are certainly welcomed if they do persist in their efforts to become Jewish, and are considered to be 100% bona fide true Jews). However, it is true that we believe that there are certain laws that all of mankind are obligated to obey. Termed the Seven Laws of the children of Noah, they are:
Do not murder
Do not steal
Do not commit adultery/incest
Do not blaspheme
Do not commit idolatry
Do not rip the limbs off of living creatures
Do set up a court system to enforce laws.
Past those minimums, we don't really care how societies set up their parameters. Unlike Xtianity and Islam, but more like Buddhism and Bahá'í, we believe that there is more than one correct path to approaching God. The 613 commandments of Judaism are our way, but they are not for everyone.

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Essentially the same, though we read that ultimately you can only get in through Gods grace (I know that was said somewhere in this thread). Everyone sins and all sin is equal (I had a rough time with this one). We haven't read of a set of scales that lean the sins against the good deeds. Sin is sin, I the heart matters. I always wonder about those who didn't have the chance to hear the word and we have studied it before, but for the life of me I can't remember the citation.
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[Joshuamonkey]

I will try to throw a few things out, but again, I don't think we are going to do anything more than self-explanations and flames here. Hey, I didn't start this thread, so maybe plausible deniability will apply.

Hopefully those who read this thread are prepared for opposing positions and possibly offensive thoughts. I still think that this is a good discussion.

[gejyspa]

I am a news junkie...I have noticed that the viewer polls taken on different channels seem to be an almost perfect representation of the targetted demographic who typically view that channel....cnn polls are primarily tilted towards the left and foxnews polls are targetted towards the right. It makes sense since (homonym alert!) the people watching those channels tend to be the ones taking those polls, heck, if we weren't watching them, we probably wouldn't even know the polls exist. So when foxnews says 59% of the people dislike Obama, I say 'yeah right'...the same thing applies when a poll results the exact opposite on CNN...."yeah right". Well sir, I would humbly suggest that the same kind of thing may apply to many internet sites, especially ones of the dating genre. While there are some (I know a couple who met on eharmony), I would suggest to you that the typical Christian doesn't usually stumble upon those sites.

Your point about polling (especially self-selecting polls such as on the internet) is well-taken Except that the long-form Pew study wasn't self-selecting. It was a random phone survey conducted with 3412 people. Their methodology is clearly laid out in the report. And Pew Research Center (as opposed to the Pew Charitable Trust) doesn't have any agenda-- religious, political or otherwise. They are widely regarded as a neutral think tank. They didn't set out with any pre-conceived notions of who would know more about religions than other, and the questions asked were fact based, so it's really kind of bizarre you would take issue with the findings, simply because you don't like them. Did you actually read the report?

Think about it this way -- your family is more the exception than the rule. Many who profess a particular religious belief aren't as well-informed, because they don't study the Bible regularly nor attend church regularly. So they drag down the average. Indeed, look at this statistic from the report. Those who described religion as very important in their lives and attended worship services regularly scored an average of 17.0 questions right of 32. Those who had a low level of religious commitment (and presumably this includes virtually all of the atheists/agnostics) scored an average of 16.0 questions right, while those with an intermediate amount of religiosity (presumably the majority of those professing a religious belief) only 14.8 .

You're making an unwarranted assumption that agnostics/atheists haven't "picked up [the] book". But in my experience, most have, and just don't like what they see. Even you must admit that ultimately religion is ultimately based on faith, and for some people, that's too difficult to swallow.

[Joshuamonkey]

Note: I can fix your posts if you don't mind me doing so.

That book by Krakauer must have been a chafe though, huh?

I had never heard of that book, but I just looked it up, and according to Wikipedia (one of the most reliable sources),"The book examines extremes of religious belief, particularly fundamentalist offshoots of Mormonism."
In other words, that book is basically talking about religions other than the one I'm in. I agree that fundamentalist Mormon churches have some problems.

How can a person who has never picked up a book claim to know more about it than the person who picks it up and spends 'x' amount of time a week in studying it?

My main argument is that Atheists and Agnostics have studied. One, because they may be searching for truth, and two, because they may have belonged to another religion in the past. I still see your point, but it's hard to know how much Atheists and Agnostics really care about religion. The Okcupid side may not be reliable, but the Pew Survey is probably close to accurate.

While there are some (I know a couple who met on eharmony), I would suggest to you that the typical Christian doesn't usually stumble upon those sites.

I agree. I know that there's Mormon dating sites (not that I use any dating sites), and with a quick internet search I can see that other religions have them as well, which would most likely be the place for those who consider religion to be important. In fact, that is how my dad and my step mom met.

Everyone sins and all sin is equal (I had a rough time with this one).

I'm curious as to how you came to understand this. I knew that I could probably find stuff in the Bible about it, so I used the internet to find references:
John 19:11: Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
In the Old Testament, different punishment was given for different sins (though this could probably be explained by worldly reasons such as needing to protect people from the worst types of acts)
Matthew 7:3: "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"
I like what someone else said about it too: "In the case of my neighbor, I would be wrong to say, “Thinking about it is just as bad as actually killing him.” Likewise, I obviously shouldn’t say, “I’ve already thought it, I might as well murder him.”

[gejyspa]

I guess we (our particular slice of the Protestant pie) do send our kids to private school when we can afford it, or there has been a dramatic growth in the practice of 'home-schooling' where we can teach them what we want. As long as they pass the extremely easy state testing, they are within their rights.

Actually, we home-schooled some of our kids for a few years, too, but it ultimately proved too difficult a task for us (in fact, there's an section about me in this book in regards to homeschooling, if you can snag a copy of it.

But we also practice that spirituality is a family responsibility too, arguably even the primary responsibility.

Agreed whole-heartedly. (or as my 15yo likes to say as his catchphrase -- "Same!"

[Joshuamonkey]

Actually, we home-schooled some of our kids for a few years, too, but it ultimately proved too difficult a task for us (in fact, there's an section about me in this book in regards to homeschooling, if you can snag a copy of it.

But we also practice that spirituality is a family responsibility too, arguably even the primary responsibility.

Agreed whole-heartedly. (or as my 15yo likes to say as his catchphrase -- "Same!"

Same!

in fact, there's an section about me in this book in regards to homeschooling, if you can snag a copy of it.

Nice! I just read the Foreward and Introduction, and it's interesting.
Senator Carl Levin is in it? (One of my state's senators, though I remember learning that he's Jewish) Also, the name Eric Wolf seems familiar to me, though I looked him up and I don't know why. Though because of Cantr, the name "Wolf" seems familiar to me in general.