Why Cantr failed

[PaintedbyRoses]

I agree, some of the coolest game play came about based on ideologies, I think, and it would be cool to come up with interesting ideologies in Cantr - ideologies that appeal, but benefit only a minority

And the current state of the game (plentiness of everything) does not encourage war-like (or other forms of competition) gameplay, which I think is problematic.

From another thread (but fits better here):

I see this era in Cantr as somewhat like the dark ages. A plague of some kind (ennui?) spread throughout the land killing off a huge amount of the population and leading to a diminished quality of life for many of the survivors. Historically, this is a natural and expected cycle of civilizations and there is a real possibility that an age of enlightenment could follow, eventually.

This makes sense, but it would then require a rebirth at some point, and the question is how ... I.e. how to attract many more players?

I would say, appeal to old people. I'm very serious. I think it is your only viable player base.

[Genie]

I agree, some of the coolest game play came about based on ideologies, I think, and it would be cool to come up with interesting ideologies in Cantr - ideologies that appeal, but benefit only a minority

And the current state of the game (plentiness of everything) does not encourage war-like (or other forms of competition) gameplay, which I think is problematic.

From another thread (but fits better here):

I see this era in Cantr as somewhat like the dark ages. A plague of some kind (ennui?) spread throughout the land killing off a huge amount of the population and leading to a diminished quality of life for many of the survivors. Historically, this is a natural and expected cycle of civilizations and there is a real possibility that an age of enlightenment could follow, eventually.

This makes sense, but it would then require a rebirth at some point, and the question is how ... I.e. how to attract many more players?

Many new players get their ips flagged because of proxy suspicion while they don't use proxy(happened to the three of people I invited to cantr) and later they don't bother to deal with it. This can be an issue to work on while trying to attract them.

[Chris]

Cantr fighting is nothing like war. Use that word if it makes you happy, but there hasn't even been a battle worthy of the name, not to mention war. Read some history.

As for why there is no "war" in Cantr today, it's because fighting is completely different from the rest of the game. The rest of the game involves playing five minutes here and there. Start work on a new project, continue a conversation, travel. The game is almost completely low key and gradual and low stakes.

Then there is fighting. Everything can change in less than a second. To be most effective, you have to act just before and/or after a relevant tick. A few people can devastate a town in a few minutes. To be effective in the rest of the game, you have to work slow and steady for years. Then a little gang can exterminate you and your community in a few seconds. Those are two completely different play styles, and most people won't like how the two styles are integrated.

[curious]

War is a 'state' that a country, region or ideology either finds itself or places itself in. Battles are just some of the things that potentially ensue from being in this state.
Most 'wars' are not won on the basis of direct conflict but on other principles... the control of resources... restrictions on travel and propaganda that elicits fear and surrender. The 'world wars' involved many 'battles', sure but this was entirely to just remove sheer (canon fodder) numbers in a horrific fashion and simply demoralise the enemy. Cantr doesn't have the numbers to create such armies and it doesn't need them.

Sure... battles as such are difficult in Cantr, and yes, they often involve either pretty crude or, as I have witnessed myself, absent role play... but... 'war' is entirely possible.

[curious]

I dunno why I quoted my post above so have removed it from this reply... can't find a delete button.
If a Mod would like to remove this..? TY.

[raspberrytea]

I would say, appeal to old people. I'm very serious. I think it is your only viable player base.

One of the reasons I've drifted back to Cantr (quite recently) is because it's easier to fit into my busy/stressful life. I think that's a big selling point, honestly. I don't have the time to sit down and play games in 20+ min chunks, so this is an easy way to de-stress and have a bit of fun by playing a few minutes every couple of hours or so.

[cutecuddlydirewolf]

I would say, appeal to old people. I'm very serious. I think it is your only viable player base.

One of the reasons I've drifted back to Cantr (quite recently) is because it's easier to fit into my busy/stressful life. I think that's a big selling point, honestly. I don't have the time to sit down and play games in 20+ min chunks, so this is an easy way to de-stress and have a bit of fun by playing a few minutes every couple of hours or so.

Oh, absolutely. I usually play while doing other things at the same time. It's a great thing to have going in the background.

[PaintedbyRoses]

It's nice that my comment about getting old people to play is being quoted but no one is really addressing that option. Advertising where older people might see the game (an article in AARP, maybe?) could be really productive.

I only play slow games because fast ones make me nervous and, as others have said, Cantr is convenient because you don't have to devote hours of time to it.

I used to play a game on the Big Fish game site that was about 90% old people. I could write something on the forum there unless there is some kind of official way of doing that, too.

[curious]

All due respect... but it's pointless putting an article anywhere until you understand more about how and why people play the game... and I mean this in the most positive way.
Do the survey... pull out the information and map what's possible in the game (realistically) and then... write your publicity/advertising.
Until something is done to capture even a snapshot..? Anything else is purely speculative.

At the minute it feel not unlike me trying to decide if my RL neighbours would be happier with me getting a pet vulture, wolf or tiger.

[PaintedbyRoses]

All due respect... but it's pointless putting an article anywhere until you understand more about how and why people play the game... and I mean this in the most positive way.
Do the survey... pull out the information and map what's possible in the game (realistically) and then... write your publicity/advertising.
Until something is done to capture even a snapshot..? Anything else is purely speculative.

At the minute it feel not unlike me trying to decide if my RL neighbours would be happier with me getting a pet vulture, wolf or tiger.

But you have no idea how persuasive I can be. I think I know enough about the game to sell it's virtues. I write awesome ad copy.

For a start I would not compare it to a dangerous animal moving in next door. I wish I could. Seriously, though, that's how you think of Cantr? It's more like a sweet, tiny hedgehog that takes a lot of naps. Your characters must be having a much more exciting time than mine are. And, if they are, that's a selling point.

It's not that hard to determine what's possible in the game. The hard part is glossing over what's probable and hoping they get attached to their characters and want to keep them alive.

[Tiamo]

I think Curious has a point here. The goal of a promotion campaign would have to be attracting people to Cantr and keep them, not just a quick sell. There is no point in attracting people for the wrong reasons, or for the wrong expectations.

Cantr would also have to be made more sellable first, improving on some obvious downsides like learning curve (quirks, inconsequent procedures, no real tutorial), presentation (layout for mobile devices, unnecessary clicking, overall dated looks) and the combat system (doesn't fit the type of game, too much all-or-nothing, no variation in possible results).
But that is not going to happen due to a severe lack of staff/programming capacity, i am afraid.

[curious]

All due respect... but it's pointless putting an article anywhere until you understand more about how and why people play the game... and I mean this in the most positive way.
Do the survey... pull out the information and map what's possible in the game (realistically) and then... write your publicity/advertising.
Until something is done to capture even a snapshot..? Anything else is purely speculative.

At the minute it feel not unlike me trying to decide if my RL neighbours would be happier with me getting a pet vulture, wolf or tiger.

But you have no idea how persuasive I can be. I think I know enough about the game to sell it's virtues. I write awesome ad copy.

For a start I would not compare it to a dangerous animal moving in next door. I wish I could. Seriously, though, that's how you think of Cantr? It's more like a sweet, tiny hedgehog that takes a lot of naps. Your characters must be having a much more exciting time than mine are. And, if they are, that's a selling point.

It's not that hard to determine what's possible in the game. The hard part is glossing over what's probable and hoping they get attached to their characters and want to keep them alive.

Well... I am also guilty of comparing the various levels of frustration resulting good and bad role play to high and low rentals in Monopoly... so, okay... Hedgehog will do.

[PaintedbyRoses]

I think Curious has a point here. The goal of a promotion campaign would have to be attracting people to Cantr and keep them, not just a quick sell. There is no point in attracting people for the wrong reasons, or for the wrong expectations.

Cantr would also have to be made more sellable first, improving on some obvious downsides like learning curve (quirks, inconsequent procedures, no real tutorial), presentation (layout for mobile devices, unnecessary clicking, overall dated looks) and the combat system (doesn't fit the type of game, too much all-or-nothing, no variation in possible results).
But that is not going to happen due to a severe lack of staff/programming capacity, i am afraid.

Once again, I give up.

[curious]

One of the things we need to do better is look after out new players better.
In recent days I have had a few of mins witness that telling, not so sure how to proceed, character 'heart attack' that indicates to me someone started playing,.. and just didn't get it.

When I started playing, it was after a friend asked me to give it an try, and I sort of had a 'mentorship'. Had this been lacking? Some of my very first characters has such a shit time of it, I would have just hit the button with a thank you very much but, nah. I'm pretty sure people just assume a newspawn is fully game equipped and do nothing for them. Fortunately, another of my first characters has a kind of non-judgemental IC help that made sense to me OOC too.

Oddly people seem to come to the forum late too. I did... I found it cliquish (it still is unfortunately) and didn't think it was that important.

If ther were people who could mentor people in the same way, I feel sure we could keep more players.
Recruit some... put a note on the main web-page and see how it goes.

[Estaar]

Once again, I give up.

Please don't give up , PaintedbyRoses, because I find you made a really good point. One of the things that completely stresses me about Cantr at the moment is the speed of the role-playing in certain places. It feels as if people have nothing else to do but role-play. Makes for a lot of reading, that I often don't have the time for, but above all, it makes events move on so fast that a question you may have asked or a request you made is completely forgotten by the time you log in again.

I think it would be very important for people to realize that this is supposed to be a slow game.

And part of the this mentorship, Curious, could involve teaching people about the slowness of the game .... or at least to be respectful of players who don't have as much time to give to the game, instead of making them feel ignored because they can't keep up.