Why Cantr failed

[Neva]

Getting messy now...
I'm still not seeing anything in the criticisms of characters that really can't be accommodated IC.

My post wasn't a criticism, it's about a fact among players who prefer mostly playing romance in game it has been written as a response for a relatively new player who probably never seen the environment before this phase. I posted it because I think it's a fun fact not because it's a fatal mistake or something which makes the game unplayable or fail. It's just an interesting development in Cantr history, in my opinion.

But I'm going to erase my previous posts since I don't think I can convince you that it's nothing but a response...

[curious]

Getting messy now...
I'm still not seeing anything in the criticisms of characters that really can't be accommodated IC.

My post wasn't a criticism, it's about a fact among players who prefer mostly playing romance in game it has been written as a response for a relatively new player who probably never seen the environment before this phase. I posted it because I think it's a fun fact not because it's a fatal mistake or something which makes the game unplayable or fail. It's just an interesting development in Cantr history, in my opinion.

But I'm going to erase my previous posts since I don't think I can convince you that it's nothing but a response...

Well, firstly then let me apologise for misreading your point. I now see it better.
Second... I agree not a failing of the game at all and in fact for me... those types of characters (shall we say... the nubile passionate?) are more of a cringe for me.
Perhaps though, if it has anything at all to do with failure at all... it may be simply be seen by a lot of potential new players as a theme that also makes them cringe..?

I don't know as I am an old player, I love the game and I just can't remember what it was that made me continue playing it.

W should perhaps survey new players as to why they continued to play and survey older players as to why they continue.

[sherman]

Cantr isn't failing though it surely has problems. But then again every game has some. It's unique game and despite it's drawbacks I still enjoy playing it

[Genie]

Where's mass there's mess too, it's nature of the things. Not something just about Cantr.

[curious]

They say... out of chaos, comes order.
I like the think that in Cantr, it's the other way around.

I still love this game, am still sad that my very first characters are long dead but at the same time... it's nice for my latest ones to be developing their lives... good and bad. Cantr itself is a long way off failure.

[Chris]

Cantr isn't a war game or a fighting game. It just doesn't have mechanics to support it. It has a small capacity for violence. People who want to make war will be disappointed when comparing their Cantr experience to games that support war.

People sometimes say that you can do anything or be anything in Cantr. That's true to an extent: you can do anything in a mediocre, half-assed way. But if you want excellence in X kind of play (war, economic, strategy, action, exploration, social, simulation, etc.), you will be better off in a game that focuses on one or, at most, a few of those gameplay experiences.

[viktor]

Cantr isn't a war game or a fighting game. It just doesn't have mechanics to support it. It has a small capacity for violence. People who want to make war will be disappointed when comparing their Cantr experience to games that support war.

People sometimes say that you can do anything or be anything in Cantr. That's true to an extent: you can do anything in a mediocre, half-assed way. But if you want excellence in X kind of play (war, economic, strategy, action, exploration, social, simulation, etc.), you will be better off in a game that focuses on one or, at most, a few of those gameplay experiences.

wars have been fought between powers in cantriian history.
no they cannot control a war like they can in most other games but at the same time.. cantr is fully war compatible, in the drawn out making a major society and influential national power to be able to perform a war kinda way, the hard way. but it can and has been done

[sky]

Cantr isn't a war game or a fighting game. It just doesn't have mechanics to support it. It has a small capacity for violence. People who want to make war will be disappointed when comparing their Cantr experience to games that support war.

People sometimes say that you can do anything or be anything in Cantr. That's true to an extent: you can do anything in a mediocre, half-assed way. But if you want excellence in X kind of play (war, economic, strategy, action, exploration, social, simulation, etc.), you will be better off in a game that focuses on one or, at most, a few of those gameplay experiences.

wars have been fought between powers in cantriian history.
no they cannot control a war like they can in most other games but at the same time.. cantr is fully war compatible, in the drawn out making a major society and influential national power to be able to perform a war kinda way, the hard way. but it can and has been done

I do recall a few upheavals back in the day and hints of war coming and blood thirsty pirates or leaders. It’s been a long time though.

[Jos Elkink]

wars have been fought between powers in cantriian history.
no they cannot control a war like they can in most other games but at the same time.. cantr is fully war compatible, in the drawn out making a major society and influential national power to be able to perform a war kinda way, the hard way. but it can and has been done

I totally agree. I have been involved (as a foot soldier) in wars that stretched a range of towns, lasted for quite a while, involved interesting battles, and felt like a real (guerilla) war.

It's true that the game is not a war game in the sense that wars are built in by design. So they are more challenging. But that should be taken as an interesting challenge, not a failure of the game design.

[sherman]

The issue is that it also means more effort needed. In pure war games you just need resources to say.. build a spearman and then time for it to be trained. In Cantr you need to consider way more things to even think attack or war. And recruiting people, that's also something that war games has no issue with. And how things currently are.. I'm gonna say biggest issue is getting people. Not just any people, active people. Someone who logs once a day isn't gonna suit if you go for war.

And yeah, you also need a reason for war. Surely it's not space since you can claim towns easily but usually it's just a claim. You have no people to force your authority.

[curious]

And yeah, you also need a reason for war. Surely it's not space since you can claim towns easily but usually it's just a claim. You have no people to force your authority.

I agree... not so much space but for me... an ideology. The dominant ideology in Cantr right now is a socio-politically inclusive one.
There needs to be some form of emergent bigotry, even an irrational one to 'rock the boat'... something pretty simple would do as long as people could latch onto it... north, south... coastal. inland... or the like.

Even daft gross movements would be easier to align with than some of the more idiosyncratic ones.

[sherman]

I have seen people with nice ideologies, religions etc. But if nobody follows them.. Those ideas soon die.

[PaintedbyRoses]

It's going to take a character with a lot of charisma to inspire people to follow him or her.

[curious]

That's why the ideologies need to be broad... bigoted... even irrational.
You don't need charisma to spread the seeds of doubt... you just need to be convincing in your propaganda.
You could even create a fictional leader if you required charisma... a Big Brother.

[Jos Elkink]

I agree, some of the coolest game play came about based on ideologies, I think, and it would be cool to come up with interesting ideologies in Cantr - ideologies that appeal, but benefit only a minority

And the current state of the game (plentiness of everything) does not encourage war-like (or other forms of competition) gameplay, which I think is problematic.

From another thread (but fits better here):

I see this era in Cantr as somewhat like the dark ages. A plague of some kind (ennui?) spread throughout the land killing off a huge amount of the population and leading to a diminished quality of life for many of the survivors. Historically, this is a natural and expected cycle of civilizations and there is a real possibility that an age of enlightenment could follow, eventually.

This makes sense, but it would then require a rebirth at some point, and the question is how ... I.e. how to attract many more players?