Radio NErfing!!

General out-of-character discussion among players of Cantr II.

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ManyVoices
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Re: Radio NErfing!!

Postby ManyVoices » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:45 am

This thread is unfortunately useless (if your goal is to change GAB's mind). GAB is going to do this whether players like it our not. I was on the chat with them and was told that the game is not a player based democracy, but run by the aristocratic GAB, and they want it, so it will happen. Sorry folks.
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Slowness_Incarnate
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Re: Radio NErfing!!

Postby Slowness_Incarnate » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:49 am

You said it ManyVoices. This is just a rant and rave thread. We are but lowly peons and they the masters.
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Aduah
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Re: Radio NErfing!!

Postby Aduah » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:53 am

Pretty sad. As a game developer, I know how important it is to take your player bases opinions into consideration. You dont have to be ruled by them, but you should always at least listen to what they have to say.
ManyVoices
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Re: Radio NErfing!!

Postby ManyVoices » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:56 am

I didn't even share that to be ugly towards them or anything, that's what I was told and thought the community should know so they don't waste their time like I did trying to change minds that have been made up. Spend your time doing something productive like enjoying your family. :)
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Rmak
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Re: Radio NErfing!!

Postby Rmak » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:57 am

ManyVoices wrote:This thread is unfortunately useless (if your goal is to change GAB's mind). GAB is going to do this whether players like it our not. I was on the chat with them and was told that the game is not a player based democracy, but run by the aristocratic GAB, and they want it, so it will happen. Sorry folks.


Hey at least we could celebrate GAB doing.......something.
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Aduah
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Re: Radio NErfing!!

Postby Aduah » Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:09 am

ManyVoices wrote:I didn't even share that to be ugly towards them or anything, that's what I was told and thought the community should know so they don't waste their time like I did trying to change minds that have been made up. Spend your time doing something productive like enjoying your family. :)


I certainly wasnt trying to be ugly. Its just a sincere belief of mine.

I'll say this as well without meaning to be ugly, and Im also not saying this applies to them since I dont know anyone onf GAB, but doing something with no concern or least no outward concern on how it effect others is a quick way to lose people's faith in you. Just feels like a slap in the face.

I dont actually use the radio all that much, since you cant hear it when you are outside and most of my character spend thier time outdoors or in a place with no radio. I feel like it has been half useless anyways if you can't spare anyone to sit by the radio all day.
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Alladinsane
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Re: Radio NErfing!!

Postby Alladinsane » Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:21 am

I was thinking of the practical too.

This development could really be a boost to the position of player Fixykx (sp?) and his making empires spread wider. With dubious control and communication between towns in a network, there is given the fallback of plausible deniability. The burden of proof may fall to other area's.

In the long run considering governments, it also can change the systemic factions here. From the previous desires to control a larger island wide empire through use of instant communications, we may indeed have to revert to a system of feudal city-states where an empire may consist of one or two cities, much like it was before the repeater profusion. If it were my play-style, I would like the idea that my small band of raiders can now attack a fairly isolated city and kill every living being and no other cities would know about it for...who knows? Ghost colony of Richmond anyone? Complete annihilation of a language group by one or more rakers? (unless CRB were used) This is a boon for some.

When it was a larger population I think the effect would be less dramatic, but the possibility of more nefarious careers may arise.

This is more of an analysis post than an attempt to sway opinions one way or the other.
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sherman
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Re: Radio NErfing!!

Postby sherman » Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:17 am

I think this is a bad move.. People are already used to how easy radio is to use and if it's all gone... All things will go nuts :( We have no alternative for it and radio is pretty much only convenient way to do planned trade. So all in all, not so planned move now
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Tiamo
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Re: Radio NErfing!!

Postby Tiamo » Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:26 am

Something has to be done about the radios. They are an anomaly within Cantr, like ancient Greece having internet.

I do understand the large networks being broken up by stopping repeater-to-repeater-repetition (eh...), and i support this change. In the past other overpowered elements have been nerfed (multiple attacks, honey, tea, meat, etc.). It's harsh and disturbing, but necessary.
(Semi-) instant communication would still be possible by manual relay of messages to adjacent/overlapping radio networks, so if a message is really important (piracy warnings, thieves, etc.) it can still be spread swiftly. Plus, as i understand, other (primitive) long range means of communication will be introduced or are already there (smoke signals & fireworks anyone?). And there always is the option of a messenger galloping on his racing-ostrich.

What i don't understand is changing the radio ranges. Since radio and repeater positions are based on it, even communication with neighboring towns could be broken (a better radio type might be needed) What is the gameplay purpose of this? I think this makes the feeling of loss, the disappointment amongst the player base even bigger, without a real purpose (as i see it). Please, don't.

Disclaimer: my characters do not use radio's, although one or two occasionally listen or have some vague plans for it.
I think ...
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sherman
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Re: Radio NErfing!!

Postby sherman » Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:51 am

But other means are not yet here and galloping to other towns requires activity which we don't really have that much. It's maybe overpowered but considering general activity levels, I think radio should stay like it is.
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viktor
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Re: Radio NErfing!!

Postby viktor » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:02 am

as I mentioned earlier, making circuit board using things require fuel is something that would still force people to get out and actively maintain the system having to visit all the radios, and for those who complain about too much chatter.... there is only 1 reason for this... nobody getting out there and networking more channels, this is and entirely an in game issue and has an in game solution, there is a reason we have 201 channels, everybody, every region in range, don't have to be on the same channel all the time.

cutting transmitter to transmitter and reducing ranges is such a heavy hit, it's guaranteed to cause great trauma to the game itself, society changed slowly as radios were gradually constructed and repeaters in a great effort, a sudden pulling of the plug will disrupt the game, rp included, heavily, even now
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sherman
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Re: Radio NErfing!!

Postby sherman » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:24 am

MattWithoos wrote:If carrier pigeons were here right now I'd vote against radios entirely, just because it would add so much to the game. People would actually get out and do things and meet people and travel.


Have you seen how people are now days? You must be living on different world than I am and I am leading quite some towns at the moment... Honestly people are like little sheep that need constant guiding all the time.. (Well not all but quite some.. you get the point). Problem being that people are so passive and this won't change it. It will just put more work on already active ones and not on a good way.

Some small towns barely have people to run them and without radio they can't even bloody communicate anymore. The change is not gonna fix anything, quite contrary. Radio was last line of defense since usually defending side doesn't have much choice than hiding inside or so. Also the lack of radio will help newspawn thieves rise again and I doubt anyone want this. And by newspawn thief I mean people who spawn characters only to cause harm to others, nothing else. Sure you can contact PD but that doesn't help much here... The fact is that activity levels on this game aren't that high.. Your average guy isn't that active and this will have lot of negative effects like rise of violence which won't help game either... This change will just allow another way of abusing the system and isn't really fixing anything... Like some already said radios allowed newspawns to call for help if they spawned to sleepy town etc.. Now this won't be possible so talks about increasing creativity are nice talks but won't mean much here because negative effects sure outweigh positive ones, we just don't have enough active players for it to work when we take into account how large the world is. And the fact this took 3 years doesn't really help.. A lot of has changed in that time and activity levels dropped..


All in all, I think many have said already the same things but yes, this will hurt the game and a lot! It took bloody long time to make networks up and running and now everything is taken down in days.. Bosbabe and Aduah said well the down effects here too...
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Shaudawn
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Re: Radio NErfing!!

Postby Shaudawn » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:56 am

Biin Hejj would not approve...

Aduah wrote:I still think this change is bad for one reason, That being that there just isn't enough world population, in my opinion from what i've seen on my characters, to act as messengers and mailmen. A lot of smaller towns barely have enough people/ awake people to fill more crucial roles. I just feel like something like this will drive people away. I'm excited about the carrier pigeons but I just dont know how they will work so I'm not sure this will help solve majority of the problem. I mean it might not be too bad if travel was a bit faster. But I feel like nerfing the system really means that other things would need to be balanced due to the low population of cantr. ...


I wholeheartedly agree with Aduah. The solution of a diminishing player base is not to nerf a game feature. And neither is it a solution to alleged abuses to that almighty damned Prime Directive/Cardinal Sin/Capital Punishment Rule, which IMHO is more of a pain in the arse to RP/storytelling than radios. But I digress.

As Aduah points out correctly:
Aduah wrote:We need more comunities, not less.
[sic]

I don't understand how further isolation solves any of the problems of diminished player base and Capital Rule transgression. Players who can't compartmentalize their characters will never be able to do so, radio network or not. With the diminished player base, now towns will become even more isolated from one another, which sets up negative feedback loops for trade, politics, social interaction, etc. This builds and builds, diminishing goals and opportunities for players who will continue to have their characters sleep because, what's the use? Hell, one of the most exciting things that really gets blood flowing is a good thief chase or a posse of neighbors defending against some loony with an itchy cross-bow finger. Or a pirate hunt. These days, my characters have absolutely no knowledge of the news of most other parts of the world, and that is with the current radio network.

This game is great for patient introverts, but there aren't many of those kinds of people in the real world, let alone this one. The awkward and inefficient geographical designs and mechanics (particularly of islands like Cantr) make radio networks the only real interconnection with other parts of the island and world. Whether you like them or not, nerfing radio networks will solve neither the problems of the diminished player base nor the taking advantage of OOC knowledge.

And as for radios being like the ancient Greeks having access to the internet, it is a good point. But if we continue with that logic, next they will be getting rid of all motorized vehicles...which could happen now that horses have been invented. ;) But then, we're back to the geography problem again and the awkward and long travel times.
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Alladinsane
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Re: Radio NErfing!!

Postby Alladinsane » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:25 am

I agree with that Shaudawn, it is sort of the decline knell for automobiles.
The only reason to drive one was for the radio imo, since horses/mounts are so vastly overpowered.

I support this move in the sense that something is being tried and its not being claimed as the final solution yet.
I remember the infancy of radio's and we got along fine, there were just more players. Now in the post apocalypse it will change how the game is played imo. That's neither good nor bad, its just different and will take some adjustments.
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Meorwen
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Re: Radio NErfing!!

Postby Meorwen » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:13 pm

Ok, now that I'm past the initial shock and annoyance I'm starting to see some positive aspects as well. If I remember correctly there were posts about implementing natural disasters to make people move together and give them a reason to work together, well this is a way I guess. It will probably enforce larger communities, likely destroy smaller ones and make travelling more dangerous and adventurous. Also a cataclysmic event like this one might actually support religious believes in cantr. The post apocalyptic feeling will definitely increase as well, which can be seen as good or bad....Also it might be possible for isolated and weird cultures to arise that will not be influenced by others...maybe.... if there are enough motivated players left. The game will probably be way more difficult to play (not sure if good or bad). I'm still not exactly thrilled, but hey, I never knew a time without a radio so it'll at least be an exciting twist, even if at least one of my characters will have wasted an immense amount of time. I'm a little disappointed it was decided without discussion, this was just....weirdly done.

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