OOC Cooperation: How should it be stopped/discouraged?

[Black Canyon]

Better would be probably say that back then didn't exist smart phones where you can carry communicate methods all the time with you

You youngsters are adorable

There has always been the technological ability to communicate outside of the game. It's played in a browser. It wasn't invented before computers and telephones. And there have always been incidents of OOC Cooperation. It's not technological restrictions that prevent it from happening. It's the shared understanding that the true enjoyment of the game depends on maintaining the Capital Rule. The players who understand that are those who truly enjoy the unique spirit of the game that is Cantr.

[SekoETC]

10 years ago you could even discuss events under 4 days OOC with PD members. PD members weren't such a bugbear back then, you could actually talk to them without a fear of being investigated. If you said something that was a borderline CRB, they would just tell you to be careful and people would get their act together and realize what they did wrong. I can't remember if the 4 day rule officially existed back then, but the main thing was that you weren't allowed to write on the forums "X just died in town Y, somebody should log in quick and pick up what he dropped". But people would tell in private conversations about what was going on with their characters all the time. Also in the past I think PD was less strict with cooperating with your own characters as long as you contacted them in advance and asked for permission.

For example there was this one guy who went to a distant location to gather a rare resource, and his other character happened to be passing through there. Then the first guy scares everybody off with his explosive behavior, and suddenly he has more of the rare resource than he can transport on his own. So he needs to have a second pair of hands to carry it. He contacts PD and asks for permission to hire his other character as carrying help. PD says yes, you can do that. So the other character helps him carry the precious resource to his vehicle which is in another location. The main thing is that if there had been anybody else in the location, he would've been required to ask that person first before asking his own second character, but if that other person had said no, he would've been allowed to recruit his other character. I think the key point is that he didn't move the other character there after driving everyone else away with his behavior, but he was there on unrelated business, and the first guy couldn't predict the argument he was going to end up in. In other words, it wasn't premeditated.

[Money]

You youngsters are adorable

There has always been the technological ability to communicate outside of the game. It's played in a browser. It wasn't invented before computers and telephones. And there have always been incidents of OOC Cooperation.

It is easier to communicate OCC now then it was in the past. I think you're getting hung up on the idea that you couldn't, which I don't think anyone has claimed, when all that's been said is that it's easier. More people have internet access and computers, both in and outside the home, then ever before. More means to communicate by way of the internet exist, with lower barriers to access, then ever before.

It's not technological restrictions that prevent it from happening. It's the shared understanding that the true enjoyment of the game depends on maintaining the Capital Rule. The players who understand that are those who truly enjoy the unique spirit of the game that is Cantr.

I enjoy the game no less because I question the efficiency of the CR, indeed I enjoy the game immensely as it is. You seem to be making a false division between "real" and "fake" players that could stifle discussion. Challenging the idea of the CR in it's current state is directly rooted in a desire to preserve Cantr, the declining player base necessitates it.

[Black Canyon]

You youngsters are adorable

There has always been the technological ability to communicate outside of the game. It's played in a browser. It wasn't invented before computers and telephones. And there have always been incidents of OOC Cooperation.

It is easier to communicate OCC now then it was in the past. I think you're getting hung up on the idea that you couldn't, which I don't think anyone has claimed, when all that's been said is that it's easier. More people have internet access and computers, both in and outside the home, then ever before. More means to communicate by way of the internet exist, with lower barriers to access, then ever before.

I respectfully disagree. I guess we'll just have to leave it at that.

It's not technological restrictions that prevent it from happening. It's the shared understanding that the true enjoyment of the game depends on maintaining the Capital Rule. The players who understand that are those who truly enjoy the unique spirit of the game that is Cantr.

I enjoy the game no less because I question the efficiency of the CR, indeed I enjoy the game immensely as it is. You seem to be making a false division between "real" and "fake" players that could stifle discussion. Challenging the idea of the CR in it's current state is directly rooted in a desire to preserve Cantr, the declining player base necessitates it.

Not my intention to offend you in any way or to imply that there are such thing as "real" or "fake" players. I personally am not of the opinion that the declining player base is due to the Capital Rule. That is an assumption. I'm also in support of this discussion and am participating by expressing my opinion. Quite possibly responding defensively could be the thing that stifles it.

[Money]

And this is what I do when I'm a tad grumpy and start posting on the internet, foot right in the mouth.

My assumption that the current state of the CR is a key factor in the declining player base stems from the idea that it strangles the OOC community. As it currently stands a lot of actions which allow the player base to bond and socialize with one another contravene the CR. A multiplayer game like Cantr thrives and dies based on an involved and active player base, a difficult thing to achieve when sharing in game information is very frowned upon. Technically an ad campaign which features some of the coolest things made by players, maps and histories, would be a massive violation of the CR. To me this seems counter-productive and self-destructive.

[Black Canyon]

And this is what I do when I'm a tad grumpy and start posting on the internet, foot right in the mouth.

My assumption that the current state of the CR is a key factor in the declining player base stems from the idea that it strangles the OOC community. As it currently stands a lot of actions which allow the player base to bond and socialize with one another contravene the CR. A multiplayer game like Cantr thrives and dies based on an involved and active player base, a difficult thing to achieve when sharing in game information is very frowned upon. Technically an ad campaign which features some of the coolest things made by players, maps and histories, would be a massive violation of the CR. To me this seems counter-productive and self-destructive.

Let's see if this makes sense.... I believe totally in the spirit of the Capital Rule. The understanding and shared agreement that each character is an independent entity and experiences the world only through that character's experiences within the world of Cantr. However, this requires the agreement of the player to accept this tenet and behave accordingly. It's similar to the concept of suspension of disbelief. You may have access to external information but you agree not to use it. You pretend that each character's individual experience is so.

I believe that enforcing this has to be done with common sense and flexibility. I do believe that there needs to be oversight and a certain level of enforcement, however attempts to rigidly enforce that which cannot be enforced can be oppressive and is detrimental to the game and player base. Just my opinion.

[muidoido]

And this is what I do when I'm a tad grumpy and start posting on the internet, foot right in the mouth.

My assumption that the current state of the CR is a key factor in the declining player base stems from the idea that it strangles the OOC community. As it currently stands a lot of actions which allow the player base to bond and socialize with one another contravene the CR. A multiplayer game like Cantr thrives and dies based on an involved and active player base, a difficult thing to achieve when sharing in game information is very frowned upon. Technically an ad campaign which features some of the coolest things made by players, maps and histories, would be a massive violation of the CR. To me this seems counter-productive and self-destructive.

Let's see if this makes sense.... I believe totally in the spirit of the Capital Rule. The understanding and shared agreement that each character is an independent entity and experiences the world only through that character's experiences within the world of Cantr. However, this requires the agreement of the player to accept this tenet and behave accordingly. It's similar to the concept of suspension of disbelief. You may have access to external information but you agree not to use it. You pretend that each character's individual experience is so.

I believe that enforcing this has to be done with common sense and flexibility. I do believe that there needs to be oversight and a certain level of enforcement, however attempts to rigidly enforce that which cannot be enforced can be oppressive and is detrimental to the game and player base. Just my opinion.

And how can the game managers protect the fair players from the cheaters?

[Money]

And how can the game managers protect the fair players from the cheaters?

I'm unclear about what your trying to ask here. My central point is that OOC cooperation, as the currently draconian CR defines it, is something the game managers can't stop. Given increased technological capabilities, limited staff time and a greater spread of IC knowledge across the player base there is no way the current CR can be rigorously enforced to ensure a fair game. Many of the things which the CR bans are thought crimes, unless staff gains the ability to read minds the CR is essentially swiss cheese.

Furthermore the rigorous nature of the ban on OOC cooperation has stifled the OOC community. If the characters aren't dead for years it doesn't seem advisable to talk about them on the forums, this makes it difficult for new players to get involved as they have little or nothing "legal" to contribute. An example of the OOC community being stifled by the CR would be the locking of the dead characters thread. A thread which has been around for years and is a prime example of good community building gets locked because people may be talking to each other while having characters which interact.

To be clear I have no issue with characters being seperate, that's actually my favorite feature of the game. My problem is with the draconian limits placed on OOC interaction between players.

[Snickie]

The Dead Character thread has not been locked recently.

[Money]

I was happy to see it's return, though I still find it disturbing it was locked in the first place.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

It wasn't the "Dead Characters" thread that was locked. It was the "Characters You'd like to know" thread.

[Money]

It wasn't the "Dead Characters" thread that was locked. It was the "Characters You'd like to know" thread.

My mistake but I think the point still stands. A draconian rule is getting in the way of the OOC community flourishing.

[muidoido]

The rule is there. If you get caught cheating you'll be punished. If not, good for you, if you like to play cheating. What's the difference between this and any other rule in any other game that ever existed?

[Black Canyon]

The rule is there. If you get caught cheating you'll be punished. If not, good for you, if you like to play cheating. What's the difference between this and any other rule in any other game that ever existed?

The game of Cantr is not a black and white. The uniqueness is in the gray.

[Money]

The rule is there. If you get caught cheating you'll be punished. If not, good for you, if you like to play cheating. What's the difference between this and any other rule in any other game that ever existed?

The game of Cantr is not a black and white. The uniqueness is in the gray.

Further compounded by the fact that the Capital Rule seems poorly understood by a large portion of the player base.