Resource Overabundance: Why There's No War In Cantr

General out-of-character discussion among players of Cantr II.

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Black Canyon
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Re: Resource Overabundance: Why There's No War In Cantr

Postby Black Canyon » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:31 pm

People have been announcing the imminent death of Cantr for the last ten years. :P

While I agree that improvements and changes can be made, there seems to be something about this game that keeps people coming back. So the key is making those improvements without destroying that thing about this game that keeps us coming back.
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Doug R.
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Re: Resource Overabundance: Why There's No War In Cantr

Postby Doug R. » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:34 pm

Black Canyon wrote:People have been announcing the imminent death of Cantr for the last ten years. :P


I'm pretty sure 7 years ago, I was the guy standing on the street corner wearing the sign that said "the end is nigh."
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Re: Resource Overabundance: Why There's No War In Cantr

Postby Voltenion » Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:00 pm

viktor wrote:
all examples that wars CAN be started for reasons that have nothing to do with world size or resource abundance. i have also had a lesser but still involved role in a few wars that also were not effected or had anything to do with world size or resource abundance.


The problem I encounter mostly when I do try to stir things up is lack of following. The amount of "wouldn't hurt a fly, ready to smile to the stranger I just met" characters is too damn high (meant no reference to the popular meme). I've had billions of chances but they always end short either by char being incarcerated for being dangerous or other plans of "yet another town with no ambition" is made over my plan of war. I guess it's partly my fault for not having leader qualities, but it's also hard to create a war when no one is willing to go behind you even though you've given them reasons too.
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Stormoffires
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Re: Resource Overabundance: Why There's No War In Cantr

Postby Stormoffires » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:36 am

there really does seem to be a lack of "war hungry" people in cantr, I see ALOT of anti-fighting type chars. to many hippies in cantr haha. it really is hard to stir up the masses when it takes a week to do it...
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Nalaris
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Re: Resource Overabundance: Why There's No War In Cantr

Postby Nalaris » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:49 am

Uh. Most RL wars take way the Hell longer than a week to get rolling.
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Re: Resource Overabundance: Why There's No War In Cantr

Postby viktor » Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:06 am

with a full char list, i see 7 that have the potential of being involved in war in their lifetimes
1 will war
3 have a decent chance if options to do what they are trying fails
3 not so much but at least existant possibility unlike the remainin 8 that, unless an army marches into town they will likely never war.

this does not make me a war monger, as only 1 char has the defenite yes will war, and 3 more i am willing but not trying to war, and 3 that i really do not plan to but if at all necessary, could possibly partake in the instigation of war, and the remaining will not start or try to create war at all in their lives.

and i agree, it takes much longer than a week to rally up from idea to war.
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Re: Resource Overabundance: Why There's No War In Cantr

Postby westonbend » Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:41 pm

War in cantr..hasnt been a real war in forever. But its mostly cause of the combat system more then anything else..it makes battles Super Long. and boring as well as pointless. The reasons though arent easy enough..supplies. If group A has them and group B doesnt well that will cause a problem. And then group B has to make a choice. Work towards forming as army of some kind 4 or more people really. Or work towards building a town or whatever.

And cantr isnt going anyplace any time soon as long as the bills get paid. its a small game but popular with the players and its lasted ten years. and a lot of drama as well as tech problems..so all in all no worries..and yea I thread necroed this..oh well its a good topic.
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Re: Resource Overabundance: Why There's No War In Cantr

Postby SekoETC » Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:12 pm

Wow, when I saw a new user posting in a lot of topics, I was like aw gee, another spambot. Glad it wasn't.

Anyway, a good way to start a war would be to camp on a resource that's only found in one location on a region and tell people you can't collect it, except maybe with high taxes, or that you can only get it through trading and they only accept things that people didn't happen to bring along.
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Armulus Satchula
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Re: Resource Overabundance: Why There's No War In Cantr

Postby Armulus Satchula » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:08 pm

I'd be more willing to bet the lack of war isn't related to resources, but characters being spread so thin. It was a lot easier to have wars and conflicts where weren't 5 empty towns between you and the closest society.
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kaloryfer
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Re: Resource Overabundance: Why There's No War In Cantr

Postby kaloryfer » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:29 pm

but living in a Mad Max world has appeal on its own
one of my characters is making great progress just by disassembling town after town, lol
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Re: Resource Overabundance: Why There's No War In Cantr

Postby westonbend » Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:22 am

I agree empty towns help a lot if your willing to work. But its also people would rather RP these days then anything more "real". But attacks still happen of course. Wars will start again they always do.
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Re: Resource Overabundance: Why There's No War In Cantr

Postby Sillysavage » Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:39 pm

EDITED BY MOD FOR 4-DAY RULE VIOLATION
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Re: Resource Overabundance: Why There's No War In Cantr

Postby Blackdeath » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:01 am

I think greed and simple ambition is a great example of war mongering. Look at the Macgregors back in the day, or the Karnon Empire. They wanted to expand.

I had a char that started a small clan, with the hopes of carving out a chunk of the island for himself and his new clan. He spawned in the Softitch (Spelled way wrong, but it's been a long time lol), and wandered for several cantrian years with another guy, just looking for a decent sized town. There were few and far between, so he had a thought: Why not take it for himself?


I'm not trying to show off my char btw, he failed miserably (it was the Bushi Tribe if anyone remembers- I'll be dually impressed :P), but it shows another side of conflict that could happen.

I think the battle system if fine for the way the game is supposed to be run (I.E. Slowly lol). This isn't WoW, where I can afford to sit all day and prepare for a raid. Yea, sometimes that can happen, but for the most part, Tactics in Cantr can be rp'ed with amazing skill.

I'm surprised people don't do it for the sake of the challenge.
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Re: Resource Overabundance: Why There's No War In Cantr

Postby oddedd » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:27 am

Another reason I find, especially for the nicey nicey ness, is that most people are attatched to even the most worker bee of characters and wouldn't dream of putting them in harms way.
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Re: Resource Overabundance: Why There's No War In Cantr

Postby RedQueen.exe » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:02 pm

Nalaris wrote:No one ever fights a war because of something as complex and abstract as religions.


I seriously cannot believe nobody challenged you on this. Because Israel is just chock full of natural resources, right?

You undermine your argument you point out that the decision to go to war is typically made by the haves, not the have-nots. War hasn't just been driven by benevolent kings wanting to steal from the next tribe to make sure their own has enough to eat, and wealthy kings have been plenty happy to go to war throughout history. Also, are you suggesting that 9/11 was somehow intended to be the start of some way of taking resources from the US? Some sort of ingenious plan to collect scrap metal from all the bomb remnants and bullet casings we've left behind?

I'll happily concur that wars are OFTEN fought over resources, but wars are fought for all kinds of different reasons. Religion absolutely is the chief motivating factor in some of those. To boil it down to one factor, you've really got to twist things.

That said, the problem may not be that cantr has abundant resources. Multiple wars have been started by wealthy countries. Part of the problem may be that the majority of cantr resources are effectively valueless. In real life, the difference between living off of potatoes and living off a varied diet with multiple kinds of meats, fruits, and vegetables prepared into meals in a variety of ways has a dramatic effect both on your enjoyment of the meal and on your health. In cantr, the difference is largely aesthetic.

Many raised the idea that one cause is a lack of players/characters. I think there a couple reasons this could contribute.

One, is that towns simply don't have enough people to really develop politics, much less to have the sort of people moving between towns, having meetings, and relaying messages required for the politics of neighboring regions to brush up against each other and inflame conflict.

Two, if towns have fewer people, there isn't much power to be had in taking over a town of two sheepherders and declaring it yours (and there probably aren't enough active people to spare someone to keep an eye on the newly acquired town. Any towns worth conquering might be too far away to be worthwhile.

Three, fewer players/characters means fewer groups/viable towns for someone to be part of. If those fewer players are individually playing several characters, it also increases the odds that people have a member character in the groups they could potentially have conflict with. They may avoid such conflicts both to prevent the possibility of themselves committing CRBs, and/or because they don't want either of their characters harmed in the conflict.
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