Why Cantr failed

General out-of-character discussion among players of Cantr II.

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cutecuddlydirewolf
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Re: Why Cantr failed

Postby cutecuddlydirewolf » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:42 am

curious wrote:
Jos Elkink wrote:
curious wrote:This game has an element oif 'immediacy' to it now that it never had before for me. I get tired of it... it's a clumsy and selfish play style.


So this also refers to the long and fast back-and-forth dialogue between players who are online simultaneously? I would agree with that. I log in once day - and the game was originally designed with once or twice a day in mind, more or less - and indeed have to avoid towns where this is common, unfortunately. It's much faster than the original pace of the game.

Or do you mean something else by immediacy?

In part, I am referring to this.
The fast exchange of dialog will never support the survival of a slower, less time allowance player in the same dialogue. This in itself is not a problem. What is a problem is that when the fast dialogue is completed, the other players in it often just completely forget the fact that anyone else was in it... worse, they will actually just steam ahead with little interest in who was ever joined to it in the first place and, well... just screw them for not keeping up..!
It's not pleasant to watch... it's certainly not something people are going to get involved in, if they have less time. I don't. It's not great game play... fact.
By all means have the fast paced thing... nothing wrong with it but when it's exclusive..? It denies so much of an immersive environment for so many players.

There is another element to the immediacy though... a far wider mindset... it is just a feeling that has crept into the game. Everything from people not even wanting to have their characters 'grow'... go through the things that Cantr life should, to my mind, require. Part of the game for me is watching my chars fail, succeed, fight... idle... develop desires, plans etc... Why the hell people seem so take with having the nicest designer clothes etc before they're 21 is beyond me. God knows... if you don't have a ship by the time you're 25... you just a useless burden.

Maybe I am just old fashioned but I thought the game was meant to be an enjoyable yet sometimes achievable challenge... not a damned chat room where people can ingratiate themselves in celebration of their wealth.

Most of the charcaters I enjoy playing most have very little and are thrilled when they get something they didn't have... and they get little... very little... immediately.


I personally believe that a fast-paced environment is fine as long as those who are trying to be included, are. I try to do that on my characters- I have several that are very loud, and they will say hi to anyone they see talk or move. Maybe it's obnoxious, but I like to try and include people. I think more players need to do that, actually.

And I agree. A lot of characters seem ambitionless. That again falls on the players. I see a lot of people talking about how dull and stagnant the game is, but not a lot of characters try to start businesses, become pirates, or do anything other than sit around and gossip.

Be the change you want to see.
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sherman
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Re: Why Cantr failed

Postby sherman » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:25 am

Actually it just resembles modern days well.. Everyone waits for that someone else to do things. That someone else is though certainly very lazy person
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curious
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Re: Why Cantr failed

Postby curious » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:31 pm

Nothing wrong with obnoxious characters.
I stand by my assumptions that anything that can be carried off IC is a legitimate part of the game.By the same principle, the lazy are valid too... but there will be a couple of mine that your obnoxious ones will need to bite their IC tongue too.
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Chris
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Re: Why Cantr failed

Postby Chris » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:47 pm

One or more OOC cliques seem to exist. I haven't named any of my living characters (though maybe an astute observer could guess one or more of them), but it seems pretty common for people to exchange character information through this forum, PM, IRC, Discord, etc. Even if it isn't a CRB, it still changes the game a lot for those who are tightly networked with other players vs. those who aren't.

I also think that allowing 15 characters is a bad idea. So many players burn out, neglect several characters, get busy in RL, etc. I'd suggest setting a lower limit while grandfathering existing characters.
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curious
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Re: Why Cantr failed

Postby curious » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:35 pm

Chris wrote:One or more OOC cliques seem to exist.

This is how people seem to play now (an example... condoning what their chars do via OOC endorsement). I have gotten tied up in OOC dialogue about chars in the game and I actually hate it!

OOC 'group chats' and/or 'sharing' introduces an exclusivity into the game it doesn't require, removes an immersive element for players who prefer not to be in them (why would I bother to 'get into the head' of my chars if other people don't value it?) and to be blunt just makes the game generally less appealing.
I don't even understand how it is seen as the better alternative to playing totally anonymously, to be honest.
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Jos Elkink
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Re: Why Cantr failed

Postby Jos Elkink » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:32 pm

curious wrote:Part of the game for me is watching my chars fail, succeed, fight... idle... develop desires, plans etc... Why the hell people seem so take with having the nicest designer clothes etc before they're 21 is beyond me. God knows... if you don't have a ship by the time you're 25... you just a useless burden.

Maybe I am just old fashioned but I thought the game was meant to be an enjoyable yet sometimes achievable challenge... not a damned chat room where people can ingratiate themselves in celebration of their wealth.

Most of the charcaters I enjoy playing most have very little and are thrilled when they get something they didn't have... and they get little... very little... immediately.


I agree. The problem is of course that a lot has been built already by a previously existing larger player base. Would better expiration / deterioration of objects here be the solution?
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sherman
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Re: Why Cantr failed

Postby sherman » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:48 pm

Not really, It would just make poor places even more poor. And those poor places already have problem to keep people stay. So big towns would win and we would be even more spread out
Don't fight a battle if you don't gain anything by winning.
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PaintedbyRoses
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Re: Why Cantr failed

Postby PaintedbyRoses » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:37 pm

Jos Elkink wrote:The problem is of course that a lot has been built already by a previously existing larger player base. Would better expiration / deterioration of objects here be the solution?
sherman wrote:Not really, It would just make poor places even more poor. And those poor places already have problem to keep people stay. So big towns would win and we would be even more spread out
Jos, you could be like the Zeus of Cantr and smite the cities with lightning bolts, destroying their houses and fancy goods. All the characters would be scattered to the four winds and repopulate the small towns (where they would soon focus on sex, pillow fights and jewelry).
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Tiamo
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Re: Why Cantr failed

Postby Tiamo » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:11 pm

I think more types of consumption would help. Not just eating food, but clothes going out of fashion (and be thrown away), items occasionally breaking beyond repair (swords, plates, ripped curtains, even machines), using personal hygiene items having a visible effect, more items that consume energy (or resources) upon use.

The game is supposed to be endless, so the economy should also be an endless cycle, not a straight line up through the ceiling. Higher levels of prosperity would have to be earned, again and again, not just inherited.
I think ...
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Wolfsong
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Re: Why Cantr failed

Postby Wolfsong » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:39 pm

Full degradation would help, because it would force a consolidation of the playerbase... However, as there are only 180 or so players in the English zone, a lot of CRB would crop up due to multiple characters of one player in a single area. Less a problem elsewhere as players are already allowed to play this way.
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Slowness_Incarnate
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Re: Why Cantr failed

Postby Slowness_Incarnate » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:50 pm

The player base shrunk that is why this is all spiraling downward. :P Taking things, and deterioration will not help. It just makes the game more annoying and just causes people to make more of what they lose. This won't stimulate any RP.
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curious
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Re: Why Cantr failed

Postby curious » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:11 pm

Honestly? I think it's just a player thing.
People just seem to enjoy playing a limited set of character types... including the attractive 'beddable' ones... which to be blunt, bores the %^&* out of me.

Has anyone even considered that people might come back, if more things in the game deteriorated... like 'everything'... even unmaintained buildings and vehicles?
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Slowness_Incarnate
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Re: Why Cantr failed

Postby Slowness_Incarnate » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:37 pm

The game is not going to settle into rebooted, broken version and magically attract people :D
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curious
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Re: Why Cantr failed

Postby curious » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:46 pm

The game is not attracting people right now... other than those who see it as a virtual playground where they can explore their own desires as opposed to those of their characters.
Sorry if I sound so negative toward people who have joined it but... I see so many people who want to make this game work and for so many different reasons now.
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To catch a big fish
You must think like a big fish.
I think like a frog.
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Wolfsong
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Re: Why Cantr failed

Postby Wolfsong » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:49 am

Full decay is important to keep the world feeling fresh and to keep the simulation alive. But yeah, the game also needs sensible advertising. Obviously staff isn't interested in drawing a playerbase back in, though, as ideas have been floated in the past to no avail - I, for example, pushed mailing old account emails with a newsletter about what has changed, etc., but that went nowhere. You can't revive a game by putting up posters on a university campus or making a shitty t-shirt.
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